Ontopic Poo-litical Thrad

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august said:
@OOD @Mr. Asa @Immigrant
is the disconnect that Ood was talking about future/M4A type of deal & not current, like, "just be exactly poor enough to receive benefits" ?
like he wasn't talking about in terms of like Immi right now, but rather IF we do medicare/Medicaid for all in the future, THEN... ?
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It started with me talking about federal minimum wage increasing to $15 specific to SC. Anybody working 40hrs at minimum wage is qualified for Medicaid here. They need to apply for it because it's awesome and makes life a lot easier. But I do want to see M4A. Basically I was saying minimum wage is a livable wage especially wile taking advantage of Medicaid. SC has some pretty low cost of living. Some places need $15 minimum wage. SC doesn't need that to happen instantly.
 
DerHoggz said:
Non-min. employees don't get COL as a rule.

Idk if it's ever been done but it needs to be $15 now specifically because it hasn't been done gradually. A lot of the time they do make a scheduled, graduated increase? I think thats how some of the cities that have implemented $15 mins have done it?
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I realize it's not a rule. It's common was my only point.

10 years is a long time but it's not a "double the minimum wage!!!" amount of time. Places with state minimum wage aren't as likely to see the issues that SC might. I don't really think the federal government should control minimum wage to the point that it doubles. The dynamics from state to state are to broad for that. Even cities within a state could run into problems with state minimum wage.
 
DerHoggz said:
Increasing the minimum wage means more people have more money to spend at small businesses.
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No it means lower middle class people have to start shopping at Wal-Mart now because the increase of the cost of groceries will be too much for them to manage or just enough of an increase to make them want to. People working minimum wage don't care about small business. They care about who has the cheapest price and that ain't small businesses.
 
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OOD said:
No it means lower middle class people have to start shopping at Wal-Mart now because the increase of the cost of groceries will be too much for them to manage or just enough of an increase to make them want to. People working minimum wage don't care about small business. They care about who has the cheapest price and that ain't small businesses.
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Right. The small business has to increase prices to stay afloat and meet payroll. Walmart gonna Walmart, they never raise prices. Too big to fail.
 
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OOD said:
No it means lower middle class people have to start shopping at Wal-Mart now because the increase of the cost of groceries will be too much for them to manage or just enough of an increase to make them want to. People working minimum wage don't care about small business. They care about who has the cheapest price and that ain't small businesses.
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Purchasing power increases: any price increases won't match income increases. Some will spend it at Walmart, but people will have more flexibility to afford to shop elsewhere.
 
DerHoggz said:
Purchasing power increases: any price increases won't match income increases. Some will spend it at Walmart, but people will have more flexibility to afford to shop elsewhere.
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That's true for people working minimum wage but not for people right above minimum wage. You've said that all pay would increase if the floor does. I'm not so sure it would. (still focused on it doubling for SC) I get that it probably would with a small increase. So far I've only seen the claim that would just work out with no real explanation or examples.
 
OOD said:
That's true for people working minimum wage but not for people right above minimum wage. You've said that all pay would increase if the floor does. I'm not so sure it would. (still focused on it doubling for SC) I get that it probably would with a small increase. So far I've only seen the claim that would just work out with no real explanation or examples.
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All prices increase with a doubled minimum wage. Rents. Groceries. Clothes. The payroll isn't magic and must come from somewhere.
 
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nukes said:
All prices increase with a doubled minimum wage. Rents. Groceries. Clothes. The payroll isn't magic and must come from somewhere.
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Is sounds as if Hoggz hasn't completed a contract, or possibly even worked up a bid on one, that involved paying other people to do work.
 
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HipHugHer said:
Is sounds as if Hoggz hasn't completed a contract, or possibly even worked up a bid on one, that involved paying other people to do work.
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It sounds as if y'inz are making the same argument that is always made against increasing the minimum wage but has never happened with an increase in minimum wage.
 
DerHoggz said:
It sounds as if y'inz are making the same argument that is always made against increasing the minimum wage but has never happened with an increase in minimum wage.
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So in other words no you haven't.

Still waiting on that example where labor costs doubled and everything else stayed the same.
 
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HipHugHer said:
So in other words no you haven't.

Still waiting on that example where labor costs doubled and everything else stayed the same.
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I think the doubling aspect keeps getting ignored. I keep mentioning it so it's not forgotten but I don't think it's working. 15 bucks isn't that big a deal for New York (12.00 currently I think) . It's a freaking huge jump from 7.25
 
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OOD said:
I think the doubling aspect keeps getting ignored. I keep mentioning it so it's not forgotten but I don't think it's working. 15 bucks isn't that big a deal for New York (12.00 currently I think) . It's a freaking huge jump from 7.25
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Being so far behind isn't a good reason to stay far behind. That would be a massive injection of cash flowing around.
 
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DerHoggz said:
Being so far behind isn't a good reason to stay far behind. That would be a massive injection of cash flowing around.
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15 bucks would be about 5 bucks more than where the increase should be if it would have been gradual and currently up-to-date.

Having a plan to ease into something that massive isn't staying behind. That's just being cautious. A good idea since it's easier to fuck an economy up than fix it. I've been saying this the whole to but you have simply ignored it. You just want what you want with no reason for why or how other than your obvious bias in these issues. I get it man, I want to eat the rich too but I want the economy to not fall apart in the process. You're not eating the rich with this one, you're eating the lower middle class which just puts another hurdle in the path from poverty to average.
 
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OOD said:
15 bucks would be about 5 bucks more than where the increase should be if it would have been gradual and currently up-to-date.

Having a plan to ease into something that massive isn't staying behind. That's just being cautious. A good idea since it's easier to fuck an economy up than fix it. I've been saying this the whole to but you have simply ignored it. You just want what you want with no reason for why or how other than your obvious bias in these issues. I get it man, I want to eat the rich too but I want the economy to not fall apart in the process. You're not eating the rich with this one, you're eating the lower middle class which just puts another hurdle in the path from poverty to average.
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"What it would have been" depends on where you're starting from and what measure of increase you're tying it to.

The cities that have gone to a $15 min. have done it over a period of years, but with the endpoint established. I'm guessing that the "lower-middle class" you're concerned about is making less than $15 anyway, so there ya go. This isn't about eating the rich, it's about paying people fairly.
 
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