Creepy Scientology vid feat. Tom Cruise

FlyNavy said:
where? was this before it was a legally recognized religion? ever consider the possibility that maybe it wasn't just about her being wiccan but she was acting inappropriately as well? :thrawn: elaborate

that was invented in 1954

again, people wanna believe that witchcraft or anything supernatural is actually real, go ahead. I don't care. but I do find it as amusing as grown adults still believing in santa clause or the easter bunny
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I have my references for that number at home I will have to get back to you on that.
 
Dharma1521 said:
I got ya there. That's why I was comparing it to the sects of Christianity to show that the roots were more than 20th century roots but I don't think that I communicated that very clearly.
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I got really gung ho into this stuff awhile back... I have this fantastic book which goes into the history of Druidism, with it's earliest accounts in letters from Julius Caesar... He died in 44 B.C. I think one of my favorite things is reading about preChristian religions.
 
Omg I just read this:

Is Jesus God? The Only Alternatives
Is Jesus God? Many people have dealt with this "spiritual" dispute by intellectually accepting Jesus as a great man, great teacher, or great prophet. However, Jesus and His inspired followers didn't mince words when they declared Him to be God (John 10:30-38, Matthew 16:13-17, Mark 14:61-64, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 1:16, John 12:40-41 [quoting Isaiah 6:1-10]). Therefore, any type of intellectual compromise calling Jesus a "good man" is logically inconsistent. Why? Because there are really only three legitimate alternatives for the identity of Jesus Christ. He is either a liar, a lunatic or our Lord and God. Since Jesus claimed to be God, His claims are either true or false. If false, He must have been a liar, deliberately misleading the multitudes. Or, He was a lunatic, sincerely believing Himself to be God, when in reality He was just a man. However, if Jesus was a "good man," as most people now agree, how then could He be both good and crazy, or good and a liar? There is only one logically consistent alternative - He must have been telling the truth. In addition to the logical inconsistency, the remarkable historical, archaeological and manuscript evidence shows that Jesus was neither a liar nor a lunatic. Again, the only position left is that His claim is true. Jesus is Lord and God.
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http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/is-jesus-god-c.htm
 
April25 said:
...or religion at all for that matter.
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so i'm curious as to why it's so unbelievable that people believe in something beyond tangibility. i understand that you think that if you can't see it and that there's no fact, it's invalid, but why is it unbelievable that others find something that gives them a set of guidelines to live by and follow? (and i know someone is going to challenge this, but for matters of argument let's assume i'm talking about the ones who use any variation of christianity correctly.)
this is not a challenge...it's an honest question.
 
Thorn Bird said:
so i'm curious as to why it's so unbelievable that people believe in something beyond tangibility. i understand that you think that if you can't see it and that there's no fact, it's invalid, but why is it unbelievable that others find something that gives them a set of guidelines to live by and follow? (and i know someone is going to challenge this, but for matters of argument let's assume i'm talking about the ones who use any variation of christianity correctly.)
this is not a challenge...it's an honest question.
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Well I'm not good with words, but I'll give it a whirl.

I do not have a disrespect for people out there that will research religions and atheism and come to a conclusion... but it seems silly to just believe what your guardians believe because your sheep is in that herd. That is just ignorant.

But then people that do have a blind faith are crazy.

insert flynavy's jesus image here.
 
Thorn Bird said:
i understand that you think that if you can't see it and that there's no fact, it's invalid, but why is it unbelievable that others find something that gives them a set of guidelines to live by and follow?
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Doesn't the first part of that sentence mostly answer the second part? Religious people aren't just religious because their beliefs provide moral guidance. That wouldn't be a religion, it would be a self-help manual. And that's not the part people find incredible. Religions involve belief in deities, afterlives, miraculous events, etc.

If a man walked up to you randomly in the grocery store and handed you a brochure that introduced a brand new religion that worshipped Slartybartfast, God of the Coastlines and Fjords of Scandinavia, what would your honest reaction be? I'm thinking that vocally it would be "Oh, no thank you" while in your head I bet it would be "Jeez, what a friggin' nutbag."

And yet the cores of his beliefs and yours are exactly the same in every way. Only the fringe minutiae are unique. Do you see my point? The reasons for that thought in your head at the end there is what defines the non-believer.

Everyone is a non-believer. Even the believers. Ask yourself why you believe in one thing but not another. Why do believers dismiss the things they do while accepting other, technically identical things? THAT is confusing.
 
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Sarcasmo said:
Doesn't the first part of that sentence mostly answer the second part? Religious people aren't just religious because their beliefs provide moral guidance. That wouldn't be a religion, it would be a self-help manual. And that's not the part people find incredible. Religions involve belief in deities, afterlives, miraculous events, etc.

If a man walked up to you randomly in the grocery store and handed you a brochure that introduced a brand new religion that worshipped Slartybartfast, God of the Coastlines and Fjords of Scandinavia, what would your honest reaction be? I'm thinking that vocally it would be "Oh, no thank you" while in your head I bet it would be "Jeez, what a friggin' nutbag."

And yet the cores of his beliefs and yours are exactly the same in every way. Only the fringe minutiae are unique. Do you see my point? The reasons for that thought in your head at the end there is what defines the non-believer.

Everyone is a non-believer. Even the believers. Ask yourself why you believe in one thing but not another. Why do believers dismiss the things they do while accepting other, technically identical things? THAT is confusing.
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in a crazy way, you are asking the same thing i am. because most people DO doubt others while thinking their way is correct. i PERSONALLY am not that way. i don't doubt others' beliefs. i might not believe it myself, but i do not think that that other belief is wrong. there is no right or wrong in my book. and my point is that just because you think a different way, does that give you right to think others are wrong? why does one theory have to fit everyone? why does one belief or religion have to fit one? in my book, it doesn't have to. and ultimately NO ONE KNOWS. that's why all of it might be right. or wrong. in my book. i am both a believer and a non-believer. and i might think that EVERYONE is right. maybe it ALL fits.

so even if someone believes in a certain thing that i find out there or "crazy" or unfitting for me, if it's ultimately giving that person something they need to lead a better, wholesome, good, peace-filled life, what does it matter WHAT they think? i only have problems when it comes to people who use beliefs and religion for evil's sake. that's where i have a hard time understanding how they can believe in something that harms others.

so if that guy walked up to me in the grocery store and offered me his beliefs, while i most certainly would think "that's crazy" i hopefully would not think "HE'S crazy." do you see my point? while i might not accept it into my beliefs, i can accept that he accepts it.

which brings me back to my original question...while you might not take it for yourself, why can't you accept that others believe in something different?
 
I have no problem if someone believes differently than me as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me. If you need to believe in a big purple elephant to make you happy then go right ahead as long as you aren't wasting my time trying to make me see it too.
 
b_sinning said:
I have no problem if someone believes differently than me as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me. If you need to believe in a big purple elephant to make you happy then go right ahead as long as you aren't wasting my time trying to make me see it too.
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exactly.
 
b_sinning said:
I have no problem if someone believes differently than me as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me. If you need to believe in a big purple elephant to make you happy then go right ahead as long as you aren't wasting my time trying to make me see it too.
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The Lord's salespeople.
 
Thorn Bird said:
in a crazy way, you are asking the same thing i am. because most people DO doubt others while thinking their way is correct. i PERSONALLY am not that way. i don't doubt others' beliefs. i might not believe it myself, but i do not think that that other belief is wrong. there is no right or wrong in my book. and my point is that just because you think a different way, does that give you right to think others are wrong? why does one theory have to fit everyone? why does one belief or religion have to fit one? in my book, it doesn't have to. and ultimately NO ONE KNOWS. that's why all of it might be right. or wrong. in my book. i am both a believer and a non-believer. and i might think that EVERYONE is right. maybe it ALL fits.

so even if someone believes in a certain thing that i find out there or "crazy" or unfitting for me, if it's ultimately giving that person something they need to lead a better, wholesome, good, peace-filled life, what does it matter WHAT they think? i only have problems when it comes to people who use beliefs and religion for evil's sake. that's where i have a hard time understanding how they can believe in something that harms others.

so if that guy walked up to me in the grocery store and offered me his beliefs, while i most certainly would think "that's crazy" i hopefully would not think "HE'S crazy." do you see my point? while i might not accept it into my beliefs, i can accept that he accepts it.

which brings me back to my original question...while you might not take it for yourself, why can't you accept that others believe in something different?
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it matters when they try to convert others to their belief systems or use their belief systems to legislate morality.

it also matters because the widespread acceptance of a fairy tale as truth is bad for our species in general. want to believe in something? believe in science. believe in that which can be observed and experimented upon. accept the truths of the universe as we know them, speculate and remain skeptical on the ones that are still question. but above all look at the world with reason and logic.

telling society that it's perfectly ok to believe in fairy tales and creation myths, to come up with supernatural explanations just because we haven't figured them out in the realm of science yet, is not a wise course of action. it holds our society back by breeding and encouraging ignorance.

perhaps there is an invisible man in the sky. perhaps there is a mother goddess, perhaps there is an eight armed deity or a flying spaghetti monster. perhaps there is some mystical energy. but we don't know or have any, ANY evidence whatsoever to suggest any of those things. none. not one bit. zilch.


I have little use for the opinions of people that base their perception of the world around them purely on feelings.
 
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Thorn Bird said:
in a crazy way, you are asking the same thing i am. because most people DO doubt others while thinking their way is correct. i PERSONALLY am not that way. i don't doubt others' beliefs. i might not believe it myself, but i do not think that that other belief is wrong. there is no right or wrong in my book. and my point is that just because you think a different way, does that give you right to think others are wrong? why does one theory have to fit everyone? why does one belief or religion have to fit one? in my book, it doesn't have to. and ultimately NO ONE KNOWS. that's why all of it might be right. or wrong. in my book. i am both a believer and a non-believer. and i might think that EVERYONE is right. maybe it ALL fits.

so even if someone believes in a certain thing that i find out there or "crazy" or unfitting for me, if it's ultimately giving that person something they need to lead a better, wholesome, good, peace-filled life, what does it matter WHAT they think? i only have problems when it comes to people who use beliefs and religion for evil's sake. that's where i have a hard time understanding how they can believe in something that harms others.

so if that guy walked up to me in the grocery store and offered me his beliefs, while i most certainly would think "that's crazy" i hopefully would not think "HE'S crazy." do you see my point? while i might not accept it into my beliefs, i can accept that he accepts it.

which brings me back to my original question...while you might not take it for yourself, why can't you accept that others believe in something different?
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How can you not believe that a person who believes in crazy things is crazy? Isn't that the definition of the word? And if you accept that they are crazy, then you aren't really accepting them at all. You are acknowledging that there is something wrong with them.
 
FlyNavy said:
perhaps there is an invisible man in the sky. perhaps there is a mother goddess, perhaps there is an eight armed deity or a flying spaghetti monster. perhaps there is some mystical energy. but we don't know or have any, ANY evidence whatsoever to suggest any of those things. none. not one bit. zilch.


I have little use for the opinions of people that base their perception of the world around them purely on feelings.
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o rly?
 
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