Creepy Scientology vid feat. Tom Cruise

Sarcasmo said:
How can you not believe that a person who believes in crazy things is crazy? Isn't that the definition of the word? And if you accept that they are crazy, then you aren't really accepting them at all. You are acknowledging that there is something wrong with them.
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i really don't feel that people have to be crazy for how they believe. some people (not i) would look at april (only for example's sake) and think she's crazy for not believing in god. some simply cannot understand how that makes sense to someone. but does that make april crazy? does she appear crazy for thinking that? i don't think so.

now, i do think she's crazy because she drinks fat, but that's another story. :fly:
 
FlyNavy said:
it matters when they try to convert others to their belief systems or use their belief systems to legislate morality.

it also matters because the widespread acceptance of a fairy tale as truth is bad for our species in general. want to believe in something? believe in science. believe in that which can be observed and experimented upon. accept the truths of the universe as we know them, speculate and remain skeptical on the ones that are still question. but above all look at the world with reason and logic.

telling society that it's perfectly ok to believe in fairy tales and creation myths, to come up with supernatural explanations just because we haven't figured them out in the realm of science yet, is not a wise course of action. it holds our society back by breeding and encouraging ignorance.

perhaps there is an invisible man in the sky. perhaps there is a mother goddess, perhaps there is an eight armed deity or a flying spaghetti monster. perhaps there is some mystical energy. but we don't know or have any, ANY evidence whatsoever to suggest any of those things. none. not one bit. zilch.


I have little use for the opinions of people that base their perception of the world around them purely on feelings.
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this is a perfect example of what i was talking about. this is your opinion. you are trying to assume this belief as truth. i am not saying you are wrong. i am not saying you are right. but you are judging and disrespecting others for their beliefs by assuming yours to be truth.
and we don't have any evidence to prove that these flying spaghetti monsters and gods and energies DON'T exist. no one knows enough either way.
 
Thorn Bird said:
i really don't feel that people have to be crazy for how they believe. some people (not i) would look at april (only for example's sake) and think she's crazy for not believing in god. some simply cannot understand how that makes sense to someone. but does that make april crazy? does she appear crazy for thinking that? i don't think so.

now, i do think she's crazy because she drinks fat, but that's another story. :fly:
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Richard Dawkins said something along the lines of calling people who believed in a higher power comparable to schizophrenia. The same characteristics of talking to an invisible person or having impairments of perception. Possibly hearing god talk to them... loons. :fly::fly::fly::fly:
 
Thorn Bird said:
this is a perfect example of what i was talking about. this is your opinion. you are trying to assume this belief as truth. i am not saying you are wrong. i am not saying you are right. but you are judging and disrespecting others for their beliefs by assuming yours to be truth.
and we don't have any evidence to prove that these flying spaghetti monsters and gods and energies DON'T exist. no one knows enough either way.
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There are more solid facts to disprove than to prove there is a god.
 
zengirl said:
o rly?
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which part? there are plenty of unexplained things out there but not a one can be used as proof that there's any sort of intelligent being beyond our realm of perception.

as for the second part, damn right. folks like that are few and far between but they're a trip. however it's impossible to have a rational discussion with someone about the nature of reality when they are dead set on believing that the world was burped into existence in the matter of a week. accepting or believing in the possibility of such is one thing but stating that it's a sheer fact because one "feels" the power of god?

I won't ostracize anyone for their beliefs but I'm going to take everything they say with a larger grain of salt than I normally would.
 
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Thorn Bird said:
this is a perfect example of what i was talking about. this is your opinion. you are trying to assume this belief as truth. i am not saying you are wrong. i am not saying you are right. but you are judging and disrespecting others for their beliefs by assuming yours to be truth.
and we don't have any evidence to prove that these flying spaghetti monsters and gods and energies DON'T exist. no one knows enough either way.
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What belief? That logic and reason is the proper course for our species?

I never said they didn't exist. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...but it's still absence of evidence.

I don't make the claim that there is no god or gods or flying spaghetti monsters. I'm saying that there's no real evidence to support any such things and thus I see putting one's complete faith in such ideas based purely on how they feel - because that's the only logical justification anyone can have given the lack of empirical evidence - as a meaningless exercise in futility.

Those that believe in something yet are able to accept the possibility that their belief system may be wrong are another matter. Those folks make up the vast majority of religious and self-proclaimed spiritual people. But it's the zealots, the dogmatic bible thumpers and jihadists and other dickheads that continually insist that their way is the absolute truth solely because some ratty old book says so, that denounce otherwise undeniable truths of our world - like its' age, for example - and demand that children be taught their fairy tales...it's those people that are holding back society much as their predecessors did during the Dark Ages.

Those that close their minds to other possibilities - be they other belief systems or a lack of belief systems altogether - simple because they claim to "feel" some supernatural force exists around them are not going to have their ideas respected, at least not by me.

I don't know if there's an all powerful whateverthefuck out there and honestly, I don't really care. But what I do care about is the advancement of our society being held back by those that want to base our laws and our moral codes on story books.
 
So the "Church" is now trying to sue the pants offa everyone thats hosted the video for copyright infringement and property theft. Property theft?
No, theyre not insane. Not at all:fly:
 
FlyNavy said:
What belief? That logic and reason is the proper course for our species?

I never said they didn't exist. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...but it's still absence of evidence.

I don't make the claim that there is no god or gods or flying spaghetti monsters. I'm saying that there's no real evidence to support any such things and thus I see putting one's complete faith in such ideas based purely on how they feel - because that's the only logical justification anyone can have given the lack of empirical evidence - as a meaningless exercise in futility.

Those that believe in something yet are able to accept the possibility that their belief system may be wrong are another matter. Those folks make up the vast majority of religious and self-proclaimed spiritual people. But it's the zealots, the dogmatic bible thumpers and jihadists and other dickheads that continually insist that their way is the absolute truth solely because some ratty old book says so, that denounce otherwise undeniable truths of our world - like its' age, for example - and demand that children be taught their fairy tales...it's those people that are holding back society much as their predecessors did during the Dark Ages.

Those that close their minds to other possibilities - be they other belief systems or a lack of belief systems altogether - simple because they claim to "feel" some supernatural force exists around them are not going to have their ideas respected, at least not by me.

I don't know if there's an all powerful whateverthefuck out there and honestly, I don't really care. But what I do care about is the advancement of our society being held back by those that want to base our laws and our moral codes on story books.
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i don't think that logic and reason alone are the only things required to better the species. that is very limiting, imo.

the most interesting thing here that i need my brain to chew on is the whole society thing. my immediate response is, regardless of the religious backing, is it going to better the whole of society? (and you are again assuming that you are correct in saying it's just a story book...it could be true. it could be false.) to me, it's not the point of where it came from...it's what it's doing to society. are you trying to get everyone to believe the same thing? i don't think that's progress. are you trying to give structure to society to better the nation as a whole? then i don't care where it came from. i want to look at the bottom line and not waste energy fighting it because of what it comes from.
 
I really have to respect Brad's take on this. On this topic, he seems more open-minded than a lot of us. Myself included.

The only thing I really hate about Scientology is that this organization really seems to push it's weight around and intimidate anyone who speaks out against them. They are kinda scary in that regard. I don't know any Scientologists, but I believe I would make fun of them alot over their choice in religion. I simply don't see it as being a very wise thing to believe, but hey, I suppose whatever works and gives you purpose in life...

I also don't see Scientology really doing a whole lot for the rest of the world. If you aren't wealthy, they don't really seem interested in helping you. I don't get that. At least there are Christian charities out there. The Catholic church does lots of charity stuff, and even though I believe Catholics to be dangerous money grubbing wacko's as well (I feel safe in saying this since I grew up Catholic and my whole family is Catholic), I can see the good they do for society. Perhaps I've just missed what Scientology is doing for the greater good. Perhaps I just miss the way Clearwater used to be.
 
That's true, what is Scientology's purpose in society?

Its rather eerie that they own most of Clearwater and the police department there.
 
Thorn Bird said:
(and you are again assuming that you are correct in saying it's just a story book...it could be true. it could be false.)
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No, not assuming it's false. Simply saying that since there's no more evidence to support any of those than there is to support the idea that the events in the Narnia chronicles actually happened.

Yeah, it could be true. Of course it could. But since there's nothing to support it I'm boggled why people would give it such blind faith. It's either due to having it passed down from ones parents or people believing they feel the power of something or other. If the former, that's never a good enough reason for me to believe anything. If the latter then there's still no way to prove it. Even if someone does feel something there's no way to tell if it's something supernatural or just a simple chemical reaction in the brain.

Could be either one. But since there's no way to prove it anyhow I find blind faith in the supernatural to be irrational.

Fortunately we're not a rational species so people can believe these things and still be good people in their own right.
are you trying to get everyone to believe the same thing?
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Nope, just trying to get people to use their heads as often as their hearts.
 
FlyNavy said:
No, not assuming it's false. Simply saying that since there's no more evidence to support any of those than there is to support the idea that the events in the Narnia chronicles actually happened.

Yeah, it could be true. Of course it could. But since there's nothing to support it I'm boggled why people would give it such blind faith. It's either due to having it passed down from ones parents
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That's it exactly. Its a meme. Additionally, it also allows us to segregate. It's what animals do in the wild and we're just animals with guns...
 
fly said:
That's it exactly. Its a meme. Additionally, it also allows us to segregate. It's what animals do in the wild and we're just animals with guns...
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Dude wtf...

Why does it always gotta be about guns, anything can kill you not just guns!!

YOU ARE SUCH AN ASSHOLE :D
 
FlyNavy said:
No, not assuming it's false. Simply saying that since there's no more evidence to support any of those than there is to support the idea that the events in the Narnia chronicles actually happened.

Yeah, it could be true. Of course it could. But since there's nothing to support it I'm boggled why people would give it such blind faith. It's either due to having it passed down from ones parents or people believing they feel the power of something or other. If the former, that's never a good enough reason for me to believe anything. If the latter then there's still no way to prove it. Even if someone does feel something there's no way to tell if it's something supernatural or just a simple chemical reaction in the brain.

Could be either one. But since there's no way to prove it anyhow I find blind faith in the supernatural to be irrational.

Fortunately we're not a rational species so people can believe these things and still be good people in their own right.Nope, just trying to get people to use their heads as often as their hearts.
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i'm not arguing with you on how you feel or what you feel. i'm simply trying to point out that why does it matter that people blindly follow something when it makes them feel good? so what? why do they have to be stupid and whatever else because they have faith in something? i just don't get why that should be considered a bad thing. or a stupid decision. what if having faith has nothing to do with intelligence? you said it's not good enough for you. and that's fine. but what if it's good enough for someone else? why does it matter to YOU how THEY feel? why does it boggle you that people have blind faith? so what?
do you see my point? it's not arguing what you believe...it's questioning why you hold what others believe against them. you are doing the same thing you are against...criticizing others for how they believe when it isn't along the same lines as how you believe.
 
Thorn Bird said:
i'm not arguing with you on how you feel or what you feel. i'm simply trying to point out that why does it matter that people blindly follow something when it makes them feel good? so what? why do they have to be stupid and whatever else because they have faith in something? i just don't get why that should be considered a bad thing. or a stupid decision. what if having faith has nothing to do with intelligence? you said it's not good enough for you. and that's fine. but what if it's good enough for someone else? why does it matter to YOU how THEY feel? why does it boggle you that people have blind faith? so what?
do you see my point? it's not arguing what you believe...it's questioning why you hold what others believe against them. you are doing the same thing you are against...criticizing others for how they believe when it isn't along the same lines as how you believe.
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It never stops at people merely believing in something that makes them feel good. Pretty soon there's multi-million dollar church complexes, lobbyists, and massive groups of people screaming out that what they believe is the truth and everyone else is doomed to a fiery eternity.

It NEVER stops at mere feelings. It CAN'T stop at mere feelings. In the midst of all of those beliefs is the belief that they must go forth and save the universe. It's fundamental to religion. The almighty wants you to bring the rest of his wayward children to him, and you are compelled to because he is the almighty. He deserves to have his wayward children back. You cannot know or feel absolute love without wanting to spread that absolute love. The Kool-Aid ALWAYS gets passed around.
 
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