@DJBrenton what are the chances that this doesn't actually make it through parliament? I was reading that the vote itself is non-binding so parliament could still do their own thing, Scotland and Ireland parliament could derail it, or they could outright call for another vote.
Ontopic So, Brits... How you doing over there?
- Thread starter Mr. Argumentor
- Start date
God knows. The whole thing is turning into a joke. The guys who led the Leave campaign have all pretty much admitted they had no idea what they'd do if they won and also retracted just about every promise/claim they made. Boris Johnson looks shellshocked as he was just gameplaying trying to become Prime Minister but didn't really expect to win the referendum. Two thirds of Parliament are opposed to us leaving and the internet is full of morons saying 'well i voted leave but I didn't mean it' or 'Will we still get money from the EU if we leave?'. Cornwall council ( who never said anything in the run up and are one of the largest beneficiaries of EU money) have said the Leave campaign told them their money was safe FFS. It appears as if there would be a wholly different result if the vote happened again today.
As far as what happens from here, there's no precedent. It is technically non-binding, and as none of the parties ran a Leave campaign there's sort of no requirement that they vote to leave in Parliament but would it be political suicide ignoring the 'will of the people'. Scotland is in a rather odd position. It would seem they can refuse to accept the decision but if they allow it to go ahead it will strengthen their hand if they have another vote on devolution. Effectively Nicola Sturgeon can choose between what she thinks is best for the UK and what she thinks is best for Scotland. In the meantime, outside investment is frozen and we've got banks thinking of moving their 1.3 trillion a day euro transactions away sooner rather than later.
As far as what happens from here, there's no precedent. It is technically non-binding, and as none of the parties ran a Leave campaign there's sort of no requirement that they vote to leave in Parliament but would it be political suicide ignoring the 'will of the people'. Scotland is in a rather odd position. It would seem they can refuse to accept the decision but if they allow it to go ahead it will strengthen their hand if they have another vote on devolution. Effectively Nicola Sturgeon can choose between what she thinks is best for the UK and what she thinks is best for Scotland. In the meantime, outside investment is frozen and we've got banks thinking of moving their 1.3 trillion a day euro transactions away sooner rather than later.
Aso. Then yeah. Texas was made by Mexicans. Wasn't just Davy Crockett and Sam Houston. Whole lot of Gonzales and Ramirez, etc. shed blood for Texas. Those folks are about as "American" as you can get. They just don't hail from northern Europe, that's all.
Kinda blurs the lines, don't it.
I've read stuff about a petition getting enough traction to force a second vote. Parliament not being required to act on this vote. Scotland leaving the UK. N. Ireland reuniting with Ireland. And even the possibility of the monarchy stepping in in some fashion. Along with all these shakeups in the conservative and labour parties at least .
All this within the first 24 hours.
Aside from whether we happen to agree on any of this or not.. as someone who's there...and according to some here has life experience going back to the middle ages....how much of all that do you think is purely sensational...how much knee jerk reaction that likely won't go anywhere....and how much you think has a reasonable chance of happening?
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
I believe our net contributions were around 102million a week (that is the extra the EU received after giving back all our subsidies etc). Short change really. Poor, stupid people just see the world million and think 'OMG WE'RE GIVING AWAY TOO MUCH MONEY'. They have no concept of billions or trillions being wiped off the GDP because of their retarded voting.
I actually applaud #brexit for one reason.
for a brief period of time, #Murica doesn't look like the most stupid country on earth. It won't last long, but I'll take this calm any day.
Aso. Then yeah. Texas was made by Mexicans. Wasn't just Davy Crockett and Sam Houston. Whole lot of Gonzales and Ramirez, etc. shed blood for Texas. Those folks are about as "American" as you can get. They just don't hail from northern Europe, that's all.
Kinda blurs the lines, don't it.
The folks fighting with Crockett, Houston, etc were tejano not Mexican. They did not see them selves as Mexican nor the the Mexicans see them as Mexican.
The main chance of Parliament not implementing article 50 is if they use the fact that there are significantly different scenarios to consider. The 2 main ones are, the Norwegian model ( which includes membership of the EEA and still require payment to the EU and free movement) and the Canadian model which doesn't have the same requirements but does involve some barriers to trade. The problem with the first scenario is that many who voted to leave did so because they were opposed to immigration. It would not be unreasonable to hold a second referendum with options to Remain or Leave with subsets for some different post exit choices. That would be likely to have a Remain majority as there seems to be a lot of regret already. People voted to leave for all different reasons and there isn't a cohesive body with a manifesto. No-one knows what a post EU Britain would look like and and no solution would suit all the leave voters.
Scotland is a difficult one. Imagine you are the leader of the Scottish National Party and you lost a referendum on Independence recently, in part because of doubts about whether you would be able to join the EU if you seceded from the UK. You now have 2 choices. Keep the UK in the EU or let it leave with the increased likelihood you can then gain independence for Scotland. I have no idea which way Sturgeon will go on that. My gut feeling is that she might agree to block the exit from the EU on condition that they hold another referendum on Scottish independence.
Northern Ireland is a different kettle of fish. The protestant majority will never vote to leave the UK and become part of Ireland again. I see no real likelihood of anything happening there although I'm totally for reunification.
The Parliamentary question is a bit of a poser. There's a long established principle in UUK politics that your MP owes you 'his judgement not his obedience' so it's perfectly in order for individual MP's to vote their own view which would be a Remain majority. I never thought I'd say this but Trump v Clinton looks like democracy at it's best compared to what we've got right now.
Scotland is a difficult one. Imagine you are the leader of the Scottish National Party and you lost a referendum on Independence recently, in part because of doubts about whether you would be able to join the EU if you seceded from the UK. You now have 2 choices. Keep the UK in the EU or let it leave with the increased likelihood you can then gain independence for Scotland. I have no idea which way Sturgeon will go on that. My gut feeling is that she might agree to block the exit from the EU on condition that they hold another referendum on Scottish independence.
Northern Ireland is a different kettle of fish. The protestant majority will never vote to leave the UK and become part of Ireland again. I see no real likelihood of anything happening there although I'm totally for reunification.
The Parliamentary question is a bit of a poser. There's a long established principle in UUK politics that your MP owes you 'his judgement not his obedience' so it's perfectly in order for individual MP's to vote their own view which would be a Remain majority. I never thought I'd say this but Trump v Clinton looks like democracy at it's best compared to what we've got right now.
Thanks.
From over here it just looks like people are freaking the hell out. Lot of omg's and the sky is falling, but a lot of that IMO has to be typical news sensationalism or just immediate/emotional overreaction that won't last. And of course some of it ending up in your real future.
Ya, true. Just sayin' the farther south you go here the more the cultures blend. Like trying to delineate between a northern Minnesotan and a southern Canadian.....sort of.
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
Yeah we kind of are freaking out. I am anyway. I'm trying to keep my shit and be calm but it's pretty difficult when the future is so uncertain and we really won't have a clue for months about the future of our country and what it will look like. It really, really, really fucking sucks.
Making history isn't for the faint of heart.
You're British. You used to run the world. You brought about the industrial revolution and the modern era. You stood at a time when the rest of Europe fell. You'll be OK.
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
The result doesn't matter one iota. The political ramifications from future possible actions as a result are what matters now.
Cameron isn't invoking Article 50, so who is? Boris looks like a chicken shit right now and wouldn't pull that trigger because it's going to be career suicide, same for the rest of the Tory twats. The country voted for Article 50 to be invoked. If it isn't, which is becoming widespread thought, then what does that mean for Britain exactly? It could be a lot of things. This referendum has truly stirred up hatred within a large group of people within the UK, and that isn't going back into its box anytime soon, and that's the most distressing thing to me. If we ignore this somewhat democratic process and don't leave the EU there's possibilities of riots; but far more disturbingly those hateful people who voted to leave may just vote in the next general election for a far right, racist regime to be in control of this country. That is the future that scares me. And I won't live under such racist scum. So it kind of does have far reaching effects in so many ways. The whole political system here seems to be fucked today, and I wish everyone would quit game playing, being reactionary, trying to garner the best position for themselves and do whatis fucking right for this country for a change. The only person with any principles who thinks about anything, imo, is Jeremy Corbyn, and Blairs croneys are currently plotting to have him undemocratically taken from his post as leader of Labour this week just to cover their own arses because the Chilcot report is coming out in the next 2 weeks and they need to take the heat off all their pals who committed war crimes.
My head is in a spin just thinking about how this country is fucked up, and I honestly could have cried a bunch of times in the past few days.
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
Making history for the wrong reasons is for morons. That kind of glamorising of England and 'the British' is the problem with this bloody island. We're not important, we're a little island, we don't own the world and we don't run shit. People need to get over themselves and realise we're a small player at a big table and they should shut the fuck up and play nicely instead of living in the past. Makes me sick.Making history isn't for the faint of heart.
You're British. You used to run the world. You brought about the industrial revolution and the modern era. You stood at a time when the rest of Europe fell. You'll be OK.
Ignoring the truth that Minnesotans are just genetically superior to south Canadians.
nukes
I Eat Buttholes Raw
I invoke the Anti Labour spirit of Winston Churchill.
O Winnie, you are needed. Come back and show Brittania what a real man behaves like.
Slap some ninnys silly in the street, declare butter rations, build some bombs.
Winston Churchill- when Pommy men were real men.
O Winnie, you are needed. Come back and show Brittania what a real man behaves like.
Slap some ninnys silly in the street, declare butter rations, build some bombs.
Winston Churchill- when Pommy men were real men.
Was just trying to be polite. It's not nice to pants Corky.
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