Whats a shiv?

I recall reading that its entirely possible that a flat tax of ~10% would meet the needs of the country. Once you eliminate the need or option of tax shelters for the rich and tax credits for stupid shit, Sam makes a shitload of cash...
that would be cool. we could seriously reduce it to 10% just through manipulating the tax code without needing to fiddle with any other programs? that's mind boggling.
 
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uh, so? how does that make it the responsibility of those who work harder or are smarter or just plain lucky to make up for the lack of others?
we do it because we're nice and because we think that everyone deserves a decent life.
 
uh, so? how does that make it the responsibility of those who work harder or are smarter or just plain lucky to make up for the lack of others?

Wow, you're more hardkore about this than I thought. Do you really think that someone who may be using 60-70% of their income simply to survive should pay the same as someone who is using .05% to survive?

edit: Even the Fair Tax allows for this...
 
Wow, you're more hardkore about this than I thought. Do you really think that someone who may be using 60-70% of their income simply to survive should pay the same as someone who is using .05% to survive?

edit: Even the Fair Tax allows for this...

oh please, you're exaggerating the idea of survival :p it takes very little money to "survive".

if you still have 30% disposable income you're far from truly impoverished

even the poorest person in america has it better than most of the world. so yes, they should have to pay the same percentage as anyone else
 
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yeah, voluntarily. it's called charity

but to force that upon those that don't agree is wrong
it's not charity. when talking about taxation we're not talking about giving out money, we're just adjusting the burden so it is borne more fairly by all.
 
it's not charity. when talking about taxation we're not talking about giving out money, we're just adjusting the burden so it is borne more fairly by all.

when "we do it because we're nice and because we think that everyone deserves a decent life" it's called charity

but you're suggesting that people who work harder should be required to pay for people that don't

that somehow people who got a good hand in life should be required to take care of those less fortunate even though it wasn't the fault of the wealthy

why should the burden be spread out?
 
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when "we do it because we're nice and because we think that everyone deserves a decent life" it's called charity

but you're suggesting that people who work harder should be required to pay for people that don't

that somehow people who got a good hand in life should be required to take care of those less fortunate even though it wasn't the fault of the wealthy

why should the burden be spread out?
because it can be. why wouldn't we?
 
because it can be. why wouldn't we?

:thrawn: "because it can be" is not a reason, dude


why wouldn't we? because it's unfair to expect one person to support another against his will. it's unfair to tell a man that part of his hard work should go toward supporting another man that doesn't work as hard. you're taking away the effort that one individual put in and giving it to someone else that hasn't earned it
 
:thrawn: "because it can be" is not a reason, dude


why wouldn't we? because it's unfair to expect one person to support another against his will. it's unfair to tell a man that part of his hard work should go toward supporting another man that doesn't work as hard. you're taking away the effort that one individual put in and giving it to someone else that hasn't earned it

Do you have any money in your wallet/pocket/bank account?

I don't.. therefore you must give me some, because you have it and I don't.

So you're against the Fair Tax then?
 
So you're against the Fair Tax then?

no because the Fair Tax is not based on one's income. we should be taxed on consumption, on the amount of money we choose to spend, not the amount of money we earn

basic necessities are exempt from this for everyone. plasma tvs and Nikes are taxed for everyone exactly the same way
 
no because the Fair Tax is not based on one's income. we should be taxed on consumption, on the amount of money we choose to spend, not the amount of money we earn

basic necessities are exempt from this for everyone. plasma tvs and Nikes are taxed for everyone exactly the same way
that's fine. i just think a flat income tax is bad because it doesn't allow for a similar provision regarding basic necessities.
 
that's fine. i just think a flat income tax is bad because it doesn't allow for a similar provision regarding basic necessities.

understandable. we have different definitions on what qualifies as basic necessities. I believe it's limited to law enforcement, emergency services, national defense and a very few other things. others think that welfare, retirement, education, health care and housing are basic necessities that should be provided by the government
 
understandable. we have different definitions on what qualifies as basic necessities. I believe it's limited to law enforcement, emergency services, national defense and a very few other things. others think that welfare, retirement, education, health care and housing are basic necessities that should be provided by the government
that's true, but i was referring to things like food, shelter, transportation and communications as things that would be excluded from the fair tax up to a certain amount. i haven't seen the actual proposal though.