Ontopic To piggyback on the gun thread, why don't the prisons work?

Domon

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May 19, 2011
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Too much car noise.

thats the problem i have with mine. Works wonderfully outside the car. Inside the car? works 10% of the time maybe, even when im yelling at it 5 inches from my mouth
 

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Morning Boehner
Oct 16, 2006
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Not all of them. Just some. I researched this recently. There's about 100,000 inmates in private correctional facilities in the US right now. There are several million total inmates



I'm not sure saying our prisons really aren't that bad is a valid thing. I guess it could be better than starving on the street, but I'm not sure. I've read accounts of people having to live in our prisons with feces due to inadequate or broken plumbing for months and lack of ventilation and all kinds of serious human rights style violations. Not to mention if you do a serious enough crime to be in a maximum security facility where you are locked alone in a cell for 20 hours a day. Prisoners aren't the only thing making these places bad. It costs money to fix plumbing and if you are trying to run a for profit operation you probably don't care if the prisoners suffer in horrid conditions especially since there is no regulations regarding this. Just a vague statement against cruel and unusual punishment, but if everyone's doing it, it isn't so unusual huh? I'm not sure anything is worth that. I'd rather freeze to death on the streets personally.

You're pointing out isolated incidents of things gone bad. I could point to africa and say its better than most of that shit they got going on. or at least it's not a mexican prison... how many people want to go back to a mexican prison?

I have very limited time in prisons and jails and the people seem bored out of their minds more than anything else. (Work related)
 

DJBrenton

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You're pointing out isolated incidents of things gone bad. I could point to africa and say its better than most of that shit they got going on. or at least it's not a mexican prison... how many people want to go back to a mexican prison?

I have very limited time in prisons and jails and the people seem bored out of their minds more than anything else. (Work related)

Do you honestly think your experience is sufficient to determine what it's like being in prison? Did you question the inmates and evaluate their response or is it just casual observation you're basing your judgement on? Read the link i posted and either accept that your impressions aren't representative or argue about the veracity of the story in the link. I find it believable TBH.
 

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Morning Boehner
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Do you honestly think your experience is sufficient to determine what it's like being in prison? Did you question the inmates and evaluate their response or is it just casual observation you're basing your judgement on? Read the link i posted and either accept that your impressions aren't representative or argue about the veracity of the story in the link. I find it believable TBH.

I have. The guy was bored, and the prisoners made it horrible. Think guards beat guys to death for being awesome inmates? I'm sure something sparked the beat down every time... not condoning it, but it still goes back to the people. There's a reason people aren't beat to death in a county jail... it's a bunch of frat boys doing time for drinking while driving and overall not causing any trouble, not "digging a well" in fellow frat boys, or whatever else. OTHER PRISONERS MAKE PRISON SUCK. he even says other prisoners make the place smell bad.
 

DJBrenton

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I have. The guy was bored, and the prisoners made it horrible. Think guards beat guys to death for being awesome inmates? I'm sure something sparked the beat down every time... not condoning it, but it still goes back to the people. There's a reason people aren't beat to death in a county jail... it's a bunch of frat boys doing time for drinking while driving and overall not causing any trouble, not "digging a well" in fellow frat boys, or whatever else. OTHER PRISONERS MAKE PRISON SUCK. he even says other prisoners make the place smell bad.

What's your point? That if you end up in such a prison then whatever happens to you is OK? and it's also OK that you are unlikely to ever have a chance of a decent life thereafter?

" Think guards beat guys to death for being awesome inmates? "
That IMHO makes the guards worse than half the people in the fucking jail. You can't beat a prisoner to death then claim it was their fault FFS. Prison is brutal and makes people worse not better. that is not a good result for society because eventually you have to let these denigrated people out and guess what, you have made them an even bigger problem for society. that isn't smart.
 

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Morning Boehner
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What's your point? That if you end up in such a prison then whatever happens to you is OK? and it's also OK that you are unlikely to ever have a chance of a decent life thereafter?

" Think guards beat guys to death for being awesome inmates? "
That IMHO makes the guards worse than half the people in the fucking jail. You can't beat a prisoner to death then claim it was their fault FFS. Prison is brutal and makes people worse not better. that is not a good result for society because eventually you have to let these denigrated people out and guess what, you have made them an even bigger problem for society. that isn't smart.

My ENTIRE point is, how do you make prisons better when it's the PRISONERS making them shit holes? How do you improve that? Danish prisoners are simply a better cast of people than our prisoners.

And I don't disagree on the guards, but the guards don't make the prisons horrible they just add to the suck factor because they're pissed off they gotta deal with these people all day long too for meager pay and the chance of getting mobbed and killed themselves.

Also, from your thread, the guy says: "After 18 months, I felt like I had the whole prison kick down. I felt like I belonged. New guys looked up to me, like someone who'd seen shit and made it through. As I scaled back on my pretty huge habit, I started to get this kind of zen calm about incarceration, and I liked to think I helped a few guys through their first weeks."

Which goes back to my original post, some people can get used to it and feel like it's better than being on the outside. This guy obviously wanted out because there were a lot of things he still wanted to do in life, but he freely admits he got used to being on the inside.
 

Mr. Argumentor

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I can't think of any mainstream rapper known for growing up in an upper class neighborhood and attending college as part of his street cred. If they do then they usually want it known they went on sports scholarships.

Of course a lot of them have but they don't push that image too much.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/rappers-college-who-went_n_2124838.html
Alrighty! Let's do this.
Mainstream rappers who have never been to prison
Eminem
Jay-Z
Nas
Ludacris
Big Boi and Andre 3000 of Outkast
Wiz Kahlifa
Rick Ross
Juicy J
Drake
Nicki Minaj
LL Cool J
Chuck D of Public Enemy (remember when they were last relevant? even back then there were popular rappers staying out of prison!)
Ice Cube

In fact, most of these guys will openly mock someone stupid enough to get imprisoned

But yeah, keep perpetuating a belief that (if it ever actually was true) has been out of date for literally a generation of music.


Right, and I pointed out it because the only real difference is the people in each.

The inmates are why they are different animals, not because of completely different policies governing each.
Yeah, the only real difference is in the people!
And how our culture treats the people
And how the Corrections Officers treat the people
And how our laws treat the people

In a majority of states felons can't vote, serve in office, or serve on a jury. This is awesome as it means that the people most affected by felony convictions cannot change punishments, or help prevent someone from going to prison if there is not enough reasonable doubt. A study from '98 showed that in 12 states 30-40 percent of all black males in those states would permanently lose their right to vote.
Felons cannot own firearms (you might be able to regain that right, but from a practical standpoint, you won't). Once again, this fucking rocks, because those that are trying to get on the straight and narrow now can't defend themselves!
Depending on the conviction, FAFSA grants and scholarships are denied to felons. Fuck those assholes, they damn sure don't need to better themselves, they're just going to go back to jail. You know, because they haven't bettered themselves because they're worthless felons.
It is hard for a felon to get a job, who wants to give one of those people a chance?
Depending on the felony, you may not be able to leave the country as there might not be a country that will allow you entry.
Food Stamps and other public assistance are denied in most states
Mental health issues a significant amount of prisoners have issues severe enough to require medication.

Here is a brief list of Corrections Officers using excessive force.
http://www.aele.org/law/Digests/jail95.html


Literally every facet of our culture shows that prisoners are horrible human beings, so everyone treats them as such, including corrections officers and other prisoners


Blah blah. Yackity smackity, I'm bored with this
 
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Mr. Argumentor

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Let me note, this is a small list of rappers that I thought might not be in jail, I verified with google, but did not go looking for a greater list.
 

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Morning Boehner
Oct 16, 2006
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^ I don't think anyone's arguing how felons are treated after serving their sentence is bullshit. And it farther strengthens my point that prison might seem like a better option than being on the outside to some.
 

Mean Mr. Mustard

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Let me note, this is a small list of rappers that I thought might not be in jail, I verified with google, but did not go looking for a greater list.

Just because theyve never been to jail doesnt mean they dont glorify it in their music
Hell, Johnny Cash was never in prison, but sang all about it in his music.
 

eileenbunny

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You're pointing out isolated incidents of things gone bad. I could point to africa and say its better than most of that shit they got going on. or at least it's not a mexican prison... how many people want to go back to a mexican prison?

I have very limited time in prisons and jails and the people seem bored out of their minds more than anything else. (Work related)

I don't think I am. A quick google search will result in tons of articles about the poor conditions in US prisons. Also, jails are different from prisons. Also, I don't know anything about mexican prisons and last time I checked there are still tons of criminals in Mexico so it must not be that much of a deterrent. I'm not arguing that prisoners themselves don't add to the problem, but I definitely don't think it's the only problem.
 

Mr. Argumentor

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^ I don't think anyone's arguing how felons are treated after serving their sentence is bullshit. And it farther strengthens my point that prison might seem like a better option than being on the outside to some.
I did not even comment on the incidence of rape, but did you even look at how many cases of excessive force by C.O.s are in one small source?

But hey, other than those I guess some people like not having any connections with their loved ones
 

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Morning Boehner
Oct 16, 2006
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You act as if everyone has loved ones...

Read the thread DB linked that I keep getting told to read. The guy states allot of those guys in there are family, or they grew up used to the idea because their dad was in prison, etc... I think for allot of inmates it's second nature.

For the likes of me and you it would be torture.
 

b_sinning

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Nov 22, 2004
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Alrighty! Let's do this.
Mainstream rappers who have never been to prison
Eminem
Jay-Z
Nas
Ludacris
Big Boi and Andre 3000 of Outkast
Wiz Kahlifa
Rick Ross
Juicy J
Drake
Nicki Minaj
LL Cool J
Chuck D of Public Enemy (remember when they were last relevant? even back then there were popular rappers staying out of prison!)
Ice Cube

In fact, most of these guys will openly mock someone stupid enough to get imprisoned

But yeah, keep perpetuating a belief that (if it ever actually was true) has been out of date for literally a generation of music.

How many of those still have pushed the Thug mentality for street cred and have been arrested or in the major news tied to violence at clubs or in their regular life? (This is just listing only 1 of the several arrest for these individuals. They just have good lawyers and people short memories)

Eminem
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/celebrity/music/eminem

Jay-Z
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/celebrity/music/jay-z

Nas
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/nas-arrested-for-assault-20031218

Ludacris
http://fredonialeader.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/rapper-arrests-trending/

Big Boi
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/07/big-boi-arrested-on-drug-charges_n_920570.html

Andre 3000
http://www.tmz.com/2009/03/30/andre-3000-arrested-for-being-fastest-rapper-alive/

Wiz Kahlifa
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1651809/wiz-khalifa-arrested-on-drug-charges.jhtml

Rick Ross
http://www.xxlmag.com/news/2011/03/rick-ross-arrested-on-marijuana-charges/


Ice Cube says he was a drug dealer.



Do I need to keep going or are you seeing a trend yet. Great role models. Yes some of the incidents listed are basic pot charges but they are usually with guns and after some sort of violent act. I like several of these acts but you can't seriously say they don't act like thugs some of the time.



http://www.ranker.com/list/rappers-in-prison-complete-list-of-rappers-in-jail/whatevayoulike
 
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