Ontopic Political Poo Flinging

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Amstel said:
House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D) now says that border walls “obviously work [in] some places” and are not “immoral,”

it's getting abused.
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It's incredibly complicated, and expensive to become a citizen of this country. It's far easier to come in with a visitors visa and overstay the welcome. And the chances of getting caught and deported is minimal. Perhaps the answer then is to severely cut the red tape and cost to become a citizen, allow all of the "illegals" to become a citizen and if they break the law, they have to answer for their crimes. A very high majority would be contributing to the socialist programs we already have in place instead of leaching off of those systems.

That being said, the "illegals" are only illegal because of arbitrary laws that have been repeatedly discredited and are legitimately detrimental to the advancement of the US. We as a country, are hindering our own advancement by preventing otherwise legal immigrants from coming into our country and staying legally.
 
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thintoast said:
Perhaps the answer then is to severely cut the red tape and cost to become a citizen,
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This keeps getting tossed around like it's a viable solution.

If I was to say, You know what, you're right. The red tape is too damn high! let's just issue free USA Citizen ID cards to everyone at the borders! Would I be disturbing the safe zone if I asked if there was a limit at all??
 
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Amstel said:
This keeps getting tossed around like it's a viable solution.

If I was to say, You know what, you're right. The red tape is too damn high! let's just issue free USA Citizen ID cards to everyone at the borders! Would I be disturbing the safe zone if I asked if there was a limit at all??
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I never said make it free. I also never said hand out citizenship when people cross the border.

What I am suggesting, is that instead of people waiting up to a year and a half for the government to process their applications, cut that 21 page application down to 5 pages... or 2... or even better...1. Make it a breeze for applicants to obtain citizenship so long as they can prove that they've fulfilled whatever criteria.

Also, if you want to cut down on immigration, I would fully support eliminating the law that states that as long as you are born here, you're a citizen. If neither of your parents are citizens and you're born here, you are not a citizen of the US. You are a citizen of the country that your parents are citizens.

Relaxing immigration laws doesn't mean eliminate them, that would be ridiculous.
 
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Amstel said:
This keeps getting tossed around like it's a viable solution.

If I was to say, You know what, you're right. The red tape is too damn high! let's just issue free USA Citizen ID cards to everyone at the borders! Would I be disturbing the safe zone if I asked if there was a limit at all??
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How about this:
1) Issue a work permit for a year to anyone who wants to come. Make it renewable, contingent on good behavior.
1a) level the playing field - don't make it advantageous for businesses to employ illegal workers (e.g. those that don't have work permits).
1b) further level the playing field - don't make it advantageous for businesses to employ migrants with work permits over full citizens.
2) Let anyone who wants to go above and beyond that apply for citizenship, which should include an oath of loyalty and a cursory knowledge of history.

We're below replacement rate in fertility, we don't have the luxury of picking and choosing the very cream of the crop. Without population expansion, capitalism will die.
 
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cliffs:
thintoast said:
I never said //// that would be ridiculous.
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Let's get to what we're GOING to do and how THAT will help.

For starters, your "fewer pages" deal, really? How is that going to help in the big picture?

this:
thintoast said:
Make it a breeze for applicants to obtain citizenship so long as they can prove that they've fulfilled whatever criteria
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We've got criteria now. So I've got three questions
1) what would you change
2) how would that change help.
3) any limits?
 
thintoast said:
Also, if you want to cut down on immigration, I would fully support eliminating the law that states that as long as you are born here, you're a citizen. If neither of your parents are citizens and you're born here, you are not a citizen of the US. You are a citizen of the country that your parents are citizens.
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No, screw that. You only receive franchise if you serve in the military. No serve, no vote.
 
Jehannum said:
How about this:
1) Issue a work permit for a year to anyone who wants to come. Make it renewable, contingent on good behavior.
1a) level the playing field - don't make it advantageous for businesses to employ illegal workers (e.g. those that don't have work permits).
1b) further level the playing field - don't make it advantageous for businesses to employ migrants with work permits over full citizens.
2) Let anyone who wants to go above and beyond that apply for citizenship, which should include an oath of loyalty and a cursory knowledge of history.

We're below replacement rate in fertility, we don't have the luxury of picking and choosing the very cream of the crop. Without population expansion, capitalism will die.
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5% nice start to a convo - sadly I have to get to the post office - will be picking this, ^, up tomorrow.
 
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