WTF Bad boys, Bad boys, whatcha gonna do

[wetwillie]

probable cause here would need to be linked to the actual thing they're investigating, and you don't get to make logical leaps like "well if he lied about pants, he must be lying about kidnapping someone"

How stupid are you - he was directly linked because it was his missing girlfriend. BF/gf is #1 suspect in those cases. He had no reason to lie - he created reasonable suspicion by lying, i.e. he didn't meet the reasonable man standard. Which led to probably cause.
His lie was a dodge to shut the door - and yes, probably to either run away or hide evidence.

 

[Immigrant]

At that point, it’s time for the coppers to close the door (even if they’ve unlawfully already entered) and wait for a warrant or permission from a higher up to forcibly enter. There are reasons why those laws were created and in place.

If what went on in that video is okay, then there shouldn’t be a problem letting the cops enter our homes no matter if there was a crime or not.

Remember, in this current political climate, a person can’t even be investigated unless there is positive proof a crime has been committed. We can’t have it both ways because one guy is black and the other is orange-ish.

 

[Immigrant]

I know, I know. It was the LED bulb.

 

[HipHugHer]

A cop without a warrant (or solid probable cause) IS an armed intruder.

That said I bet there's a lot more to this than that minute or two altercation. There's a whole lot we don't know.

 

[wetwillie]

Well, they had been there before. And it was major dumz leaving the door unlocked. Or was it unlatched? Apparently they are having trouble locating the uber driver allegedly called for the missing girl at 4 am a few days before. They need to do some followup on this story.

 

[HipHugHer]

Uber drivers are rapists and murderers.

 

[august]

"the partner always did it!" does not give reasonable suspicion nor probable cause
"he lied about wearing pants" does not give probable cause THAT HE KIDNAPPED HER. it may cause them to be suspicious as to why he is lying, but the status of his pants is 100% unrelated, as far as we know, to the whereabouts of his girlfriend and does not give them a right to enter the premises, and certainly not to immediately physically attack/restrain him as they did.

 

[HipHugHer]

Where is this case from or any articles with more history on it?
Curious if the parents could've said ya come by and talk to him. If other people involved fingered him as a possible suspect. How his being a minor affects things. Whether he'd talked to police before and contradicted himself. Etc. Etc. Etc.

May not excuse all their actions but could explain some possible consent or reasonable suspicion.

The video is one snippet in time. Shows aggressive cops but tells no context of anything else.
Should be the raw video somewhere but not sure if this one could even be allowed as evidence as it is. Adding music, commentary, etc. all counts as altering evidence.

 

[nukes]

Uber drivers are rapists and murderers.

At the very least.

 

[wetwillie]

"the partner always did it!" does not give reasonable suspicion nor probable cause
"he lied about wearing pants" does not give probable cause THAT HE KIDNAPPED HER. it may cause them to be suspicious as to why he is lying, but the status of his pants is 100% unrelated, as far as we know, to the whereabouts of his girlfriend and does not give them a right to enter the premises, and certainly not to immediately physically attack/restrain him as they did.

You've been wrong before and are again. He knew why the po-po were there - they had been there the day before. Lying turned him into an uncooperative witness, since he was the last person to see her alive, other than the uber driver. It wasn;t just the pants, he had a friend there, he wanted to shut the door - he obviously wasn't concerned about his missing friend. If I was that kid and my friend went missing, I certainly tell the po-po whatever I knew. Even if I had to tell them 2-3 times.

 

[Mr. Argumentor]

I love when old white guys talk about how they'd act around cops if they were young black guys.

 

[wetwillie]

I love when old white guys talk about how they'd act around cops if they were young black guys.

Uh, you are much closer to white than I. I expect I may be presumed to be MExican, since it happens so often. I deal with black people every day, I don't think I am out of touch with them, other than the pure thug types which we don't get many of.
Yes, I wouldn't try to act like I was a bad ass and hide inside. People acting like their "rights"(often poorly understood)are something to be used to stand their ground "just because" is a big part of negative interaction with the police. I see a common thread of blaming everything negative on other people in a few here.

 

[Immigrant]

Adding music, commentary, etc. all counts as altering evidence.

Gosh, I wonder if the actual footage will be used if there is a court case or if everyone will link to the YouTube version?

 

[Immigrant]

Just in case

 

[HipHugHer]

Just in caseView attachment 9461

It makes it obviously slanted and easy to doubt or dismiss as trying to influence the viewer. It's also badly done and very distracting.
Just show what happened.
Leave the 8th grade audio/visual class "production" techniques in the garbage where they belong.

I bet whoever did that thinks they're the next Oliver Stone or something.
It's awful.

 

[Immigrant]

It makes it obviously slanted and easy to doubt or dismiss as trying to influence the viewer. It's also badly done and very distracting.
Just show what happened.
Leave the 8th grade audio/visual class "production" techniques in the garbage where they belong.

I bet whoever did that thinks they're the next Oliver Stone or something.
It's awful.

It’s a YouTube video. Look past the “production” and only observe the language/actions.

The cops opened the door and entered without permission. Fail, right there. If they were burglars and were shot and killed by the homeowner/occupant, it would’ve been justified. Right?

 

[HipHugHer]

It’s a YouTube video. Look past the “production” and only observe the language/actions.

The cops opened the door and entered without permission. Fail, right there. If they were burglars and were shot and killed by the homeowner/occupant, it would’ve been justified. Right?

Would've been justified in shooting these cops too but good luck with that. If they decide to let you live at all you'll be painted as a crazed lunatic barricaded in and threatening police. Then they'll shoot your dog while you get swatted and charged with more felonies than you can buy your way out of.

 

[Immigrant]

Would've been justified in shooting these cops too but good luck with that. If they decide to let you live at all you'll be painted as a crazed lunatic barricaded in and threatening police. Then they'll shoot your dog while you get swatted and charged with more felonies than you can buy your way out of.

Then I’d hope they’d get put away for life. But in this current climate and given who the “perp” was, they’d be let off.

 

[wetwillie]

It’s a YouTube video. Look past the “production” and only observe the language/actions.

The cops opened the door and entered without permission. Fail, right there. If they were burglars and were shot and killed by the homeowner/occupant, it would’ve been justified. Right?

It would/could, but that isn't how it went down, at all. Nobody was shot, someone got coller-grabbed. They had a home security system for home invasions. It worked except that whole door unlocked thing. Waiting for follow up.
Shooting a firearm in your home without some reasonable idea of who or what you are dealing with is reckless AF. I'd need a really good reason to start a shoot out with the po-po. They got more bullets.

 

[august]

You've been wrong before and are again. He knew why the po-po were there - they had been there the day before. Lying turned him into an uncooperative witness, since he was the last person to see her alive, other than the uber driver. It wasn;t just the pants, he had a friend there, he wanted to shut the door - he obviously wasn't concerned about his missing friend. If I was that kid and my friend went missing, I certainly tell the po-po whatever I knew. Even if I had to tell them 2-3 times.

none of that gives them PC to enter

if they had PC to enter, they wouldn't have needed to come up with a flimsy pretense to enter. and they would need a reason to enter *that specific domicile.* that they wanted to talk to him and he didn't does not give probable cause to enter the home, and him not wanting to answer also does not give them a reason to enter or arrest him.


being an uncooperative witness is not a crime. not answering questions or cooperating or talking to the police, particularly if you are not under arrest, is not a crime. telling a cop to eat your entire ass, while not advisable, is not a crime.


if they had enough to arrest him, they wouldn't have needed to come up with a flimsy premise to enter AND they still need to restrain themselves to an appropriate use of force.

there's a reason why they're supposed to get a fucking warrant, setting aside someone's constitutional rights is supposed to be a pretty big fucking deal, and you SHOULD be required, in the absence of an emergency, to justify on record WHY you think it's OK, and there SHOULD be someone who isn't your buddy cops to determine whether the reasons you gave are appropriate enough.