Ontopic Should California and Oregon seek secession?

Not just the schools, but the entire population. Do the schools better too. It will take hard work and responsibility, so I can see how a champion of red states would take issue.

Lol Cato Institute lol

it requires a lot more than money, though. the entire system needs to be overhauled from the ground up. our public school system was designed for a country of farmers and factory workers. that's not america anymore, we need to revamp the system. the core curriculum is one step in modernizing education but a lot of concepts need to be restructured. students shouldn't be grouped primarily by age, the older a student gets the later they need to sleep and should start later, the lectures and note taking should be done at home on either personal or school supplied devices while time at school is spent doing handouts and getting help from the teacher or other students

money alone won't do it but doing all that will cost money.
 
oh and fuck the scheduling, too. massive breaks in education are terrible for learning because the last few weeks and the first few weeks are utterly wasted with constant changeover preparations. again, because it was built for a country of farmers
 
bruh, it's the cato institute.

this is like a libertarian saying they don't know anything about mises.org

no idea.

it requires a lot more than money, though. the entire system needs to be overhauled from the ground up. our public school system was designed for a country of farmers and factory workers. that's not america anymore, we need to revamp the system. the core curriculum is one step in modernizing education but a lot of concepts need to be restructured. students shouldn't be grouped primarily by age, the older a student gets the later they need to sleep and should start later, the lectures and note taking should be done at home on either personal or school supplied devices while time at school is spent doing handouts and getting help from the teacher or other students

money alone won't do it but doing all that will cost money.

i think you nailed why public schools are a failure in some areas and successful in others, most of the learning takes place at home, not in a classroom. suburban/rural areas tend to have a decent home to go too. outside of sending a lot of lower income kids to all out boarding schools, just throwing money into the district isn't going to help much.
 
no idea.



i think you nailed why public schools are a failure in some areas and successful in others, most of the learning takes place at home, not in a classroom. suburban/rural areas tend to have a decent home to go too. outside of sending a lot of lower income kids to all out boarding schools, just throwing money into the district isn't going to help much.

the data doesn't show any advantage in rural or suburban schools. if anything the urban schools have a slight edge but it's offset enough by the population density effect on crime to be a wash

you have this fantasy of a good, honest, small town USA where a parent is always home to do math homework with little timmy. that these school are pumping out straight A students who will go onto major in something useful like STEM instead of some art history or something else you have an unwarranted disdain for.

newsflash: that leave it to beaver horseshit died a long time ago. most families are working two jobs or have other obligations that keep them from spending hours with their kids doing homework. a large chunk of people are too fucking poor to worry about helping their kids with homework. that's why trump won, remember? because those former one-factory towns that have dried up and hit rock bottom. they've been ignored and so have their schools.

most of the middle and upper middle class suburban schools are failing in the exact same ways as the schools anywhere else, their curriculum is still designed for a population of children that no longer exists, their daily and yearly scheduling are counter-productive to biology but really convenient for parents, their meals more often consist of snacks from vending machines than actual food, and their methods of teaching are still locked into a mode of thinking that groups kids by their most arbitrary characteristic.

The home lives of inner city kids are just as bad as the home lives in trumpland. They're both being failed harder than the rest but it makes no sense to suggest that they're representative of rural/suburban or urban schools entirely.
 
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Also, what I'm talking about is nothing like the current idea of parents just helping their kids with their homework. especially since so many fucking parents cry on facebook about not being able to understand "common core math" which isn't a fucking thing in the first place but either way they bitch and moan that their way of learning was perfectly fine. As if it just so happened that the peak of educational methodology was reached when they were in school.

Anyways, I'm talking about completely shifting the way school is taught. The old model is the teacher lectures, homework is done alone, and then it's checked the next day. Instead the lecture can be done by video and other presentation formats while the time in the classroom is spent going over the work that would have been done at home.

Fucking hell most parents probably aren't qualified to answer homework questions for their kids anyways, at least once they hit middle or high school. How many adults that aren't botanists are going to be able to explain to their kids in a competent manner how a plant cell works?
 
i'm not talking about parents helping with homework either, i'm talking about parents making the kid actually do the homework and studying and giving them a quiet decent place to do it. seems super basic, but a lot of kids don't have that, hence the boarding school comment.
 
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a lot of kids don't have that because parents are spending too much time working because wages were stagnating for so long because SOME PEOPLE keep pushing the idea of trickle down economics and it's fucking over all of us. maybe if all the asshole GOVERNMENT ALWAYS FAILS dingbats would stop shouting their misinformed belief that they cling to because their own schools and parents failed at teaching them critical thinking skills we could actually have a stable and secure middle class that can participate in their children's education

but no, those kids should just be bootstrapping themselves into success despite living in poverty. and when they become adults they'll be expected to just innately know that they're supposed to work hard and take personal responsibility as if by FUCKING MAGIC
 
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do you understand why some "city schools" are failures? because there are many which are among the best public schools in the west

do you think schools in rural areas are any better?

Depends on the city and who actually lives there. I've lived in some cities where people actually lived downtown and there was money for the schools. In Denver it's all burbs because Denver has a very high population of political refugees which caused the curriculum to go to shit so people took their kids and their money to the burbs and private a school.
 
a lot of kids don't have that because parents are spending too much time working because wages were stagnating for so long because SOME PEOPLE keep pushing the idea of trickle down economics and it's fucking over all of us. maybe if all the asshole GOVERNMENT ALWAYS FAILS dingbats would stop shouting their misinformed belief that they cling to because their own schools and parents failed at teaching them critical thinking skills we could actually have a stable and secure middle class that can participate in their children's education

but no, those kids should just be bootstrapping themselves into success despite living in poverty. and when they become adults they'll be expected to just innately know that they're supposed to work hard and take personal responsibility as if by FUCKING MAGIC

or because you know, single parent homes.
 
Also, what I'm talking about is nothing like the current idea of parents just helping their kids with their homework. especially since so many fucking parents cry on facebook about not being able to understand "common core math" which isn't a fucking thing in the first place but either way they bitch and moan that their way of learning was perfectly fine. As if it just so happened that the peak of educational methodology was reached when they were in school.

Anyways, I'm talking about completely shifting the way school is taught. The old model is the teacher lectures, homework is done alone, and then it's checked the next day. Instead the lecture can be done by video and other presentation formats while the time in the classroom is spent going over the work that would have been done at home.

Fucking hell most parents probably aren't qualified to answer homework questions for their kids anyways, at least once they hit middle or high school. How many adults that aren't botanists are going to be able to explain to their kids in a competent manner how a plant cell works?
Can I vote you in as secretary of education? We disagree on a lot of things but as a parent of kids in a range of grades this is some of the most sane sounding stuff I've heard. There is a big push for "traditional" schools around here which means you sit straight forward in your desk and are lectured all day then go home with tons of homework since it's an accelerated program. They then have tons of kindergarteners that are acting out and "problem kids". You mean that isn't an ideal environment for a five year old?

Let's revamp everything completely.
 
yeah, exactly. there are a LOT of cities. and a lot of rural areas. a blanket "city schools suck, country school rock" is dumb
Growing up I went to rural schools, dods schools, city schools with no name only PS and a number. And it all has to do with the curriculum based around the students who go there. If the kids are behind, have language issues, etc then no amount of money will fix that. And that can happen regardless of location. It's 100% about the student population.
 
or because you know, single parent homes.
true, that's also a huge one

hey maybe if people could get birth control for free and women could get abortions for free and without any stupid restrictions like an ultrasound and a stern talking to we wouldn't have nearly as many of those single parent homes

BUT NOPE, let's just pretend we're not paying for it on the other end
 
Also, what I'm talking about is nothing like the current idea of parents just helping their kids with their homework. especially since so many fucking parents cry on facebook about not being able to understand "common core math" which isn't a fucking thing in the first place but either way they bitch and moan that their way of learning was perfectly fine. As if it just so happened that the peak of educational methodology was reached when they were in school.

Anyways, I'm talking about completely shifting the way school is taught. The old model is the teacher lectures, homework is done alone, and then it's checked the next day. Instead the lecture can be done by video and other presentation formats while the time in the classroom is spent going over the work that would have been done at home.

Fucking hell most parents probably aren't qualified to answer homework questions for their kids anyways, at least once they hit middle or high school. How many adults that aren't botanists are going to be able to explain to their kids in a competent manner how a plant cell works?
Microflop goes to a STEM school and they do a few weeks of normal type class then a week on nothing but engineering a topic all day like building robots, flying machines, wind mills and sails, etc.
 
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Can I vote you in as secretary of education? We disagree on a lot of things but as a parent of kids in a range of grades this is some of the most sane sounding stuff I've heard. There is a big push for "traditional" schools around here which means you sit straight forward in your desk and are lectured all day then go home with tons of homework since it's an accelerated program. They then have tons of kindergarteners that are acting out and "problem kids". You mean that isn't an ideal environment for a five year old?

Let's revamp everything completely.

I would probably need an assistant that isn't nearly as unjustly hostile as I am to sports programs.
 
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