You Lie!

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One plain fact should outweigh all the words of Barack Obama and all the impressive trappings of the setting in which he says them: He tried to rush Congress into passing a massive government takeover of the nation's medical care before the August recess-- for a program that would not take effect until 2013!

Whatever President Obama is, he is not stupid. If the urgency to pass the medical care legislation was to deal with a problem immediately, then why postpone the date when the legislation goes into effect for years-- more specifically, until the year after the next Presidential election?

If this is such an urgently needed program, why wait for years to put it into effect? And if the public is going to benefit from this, why not let them experience those benefits before the next Presidential election?

If it is not urgent that the legislation goes into effect immediately, then why don't we have time to go through the normal process of holding Congressional hearings on the pros and cons, accompanied by public discussions of its innumerable provisions? What sense does it make to "hurry up and wait" on something that is literally a matter of life and death?

If we do not believe that the President is stupid, then what do we believe? The only reasonable alternative seems to be that he wanted to get this massive government takeover of medical care passed into law before the public understood what was in it.

Moreover, he wanted to get re-elected in 2012 before the public experienced what its actual consequences would be.

Unfortunately, this way of doing things is all too typical of the way this administration has acted on a wide range of issues.

Consider the "stimulus" legislation. Here the administration was successful in rushing a massive spending bill through Congress in just two days-- after which it sat on the President's desk for three days, while he was away on vacation. But, like the medical care legislation, the "stimulus" legislation takes effect slowly.

The Congressional Budget Office estimates that it will be September 2010 before even three-quarters of the money will be spent. Some economists expect that it will not all be spent by the end of 2010.

What was the rush to pass it, then? It was not to get that money out into the economy as fast as possible. It was to get that money-- and the power that goes with it-- into the hands of the government. Power is what politics is all about.

The worst thing that could happen, from the standpoint of those seeking more government power over the economy, would be for the economy to begin recovering on its own while months were being spent debating the need for a "stimulus" bill. As the President's chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, said, you can't let a crisis "go to waste" when "it's an opportunity to do things you could not do before."

There are lots of people in the Obama administration who want to do things that have not been done before-- and to do them before the public realizes what is happening.

The proliferation of White House "czars" in charge of everything from financial issues to media issues is more of the same circumvention of the public and of the Constitution. Czars don't have to be confirmed by the Senate, the way Cabinet members must be, even though czars may wield more power, so you may never know what these people are like, until it is too late.

What Barack Obama says Wednesday night is not nearly as important as what he has been doing-- and how he has been doing it.
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http://townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2009/09/08/listening_to_a_liar?page=full


etc
 
sham w_a_w said:
:lol: this may be difficult for you to understand, are hospitals supposed to throw people out on the curb who are dying? I don't want to foot the bill any more than you do but that's socially irresponsible as well as psychotic...are we going to start throwing them in ovens too, to dispose of them? "I know you're not dead yet but my shift is up in 15 so be a good mexican and hop in the oven, ok?" :lol:
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Mr. Sham w_a_w, if you'll just take a seat over there and take your half amputated leg with you. The entire Ramirez family have cold symptoms and were here first. Also, the Gonzalez family is here too in front of you. They were in a car accident and appear to have some bruises that we'll need to take care of. You know, first come first serve. I realize you look like a ghost, don't have the strength to get your bloody ass to that chair over there and wait, but we just don't turn anyone away since you're picking up the tab for these guys, as well as yourself! What? your child is sick too? Well, if you want, you could let them have your spot, after the Ramirez family & then the Gonzalez family. Oh, & we close at 5.
 
Amstel said:
Obama did lie. Based on the specific terminology the Left has used, they are not all barred from coverage.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/27/health.care.immigrants/



* Section 242 of the bill prohibits "undocumented aliens" from receiving health care, but does not prescribe a method for preventing illegal aliens from receiving health care. It goes without saying that illegal aliens will have no difficulty circumventing this rule and receiving taxpayer-funded health care under this act - just as they currently do.

*Amendments to the bill, that have been offered but REJECTED that would prevent illegal aliens from benefiting from the bill by requiring that any participant in the public plan created under the bill to prove they are not an illegal alien by demonstrating eligibility through the Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) system. Where voted down by Democrats.

It would have ensured that American taxpayers will would not be forced to foot the bill to enroll illegal aliens in the government-run, taxpayer-subsidized public plan created under the health care bill!
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What you posted here does not prove that Obama has spoken a lie.
 
ZRH said:
Hyperbole as usual. Lets take a relatively simple statement and COMPARE IT TO NAZIS and then I will win at internets.
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if we eject dying people who are uncovered from hospitals, this is EXACTLY what would happen...they would die on the street and be cremated because it's the most cost effective option...run along unless you have something pertinent to add to the conversation

Sarcasmo said:
How many undocumented aliens show up to the hospital dying though? That seems like a remote occurence. I don't have a problem with those particular ones and I don't mind helping them. I have a problem with the tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who show up at Parkland Hospital's emergency room here in Dallas and use it as their primary care physician, causing residents like me to pay tens of millions of dollars a year in subsidy taxes. Money I could be using to care for my own child and my own family. But instead I'm giving it away.

I do have a choice though. Instead of remaining in the city where my job is, I could express my dissatisfaction with the system by moving to a rural community and taking a job in a different field that pays me 15% of my current salary. That'll show 'em.
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I don't like paying for them either but short of executing them all there is no way around this that I can see...do you have a viable solution?
 
So, wait. The Conservatives accuse Obama's plan of containing 'Death Boards', yet I hear conservatives here arguing for exactly that.

How very very odd.

no, not really. Just more right wing obfuscation to cover up the real truths of their agenda.
 
I wondering how much money people would save if no illegal immigrants were to be facilitated in American hospitals..

Would it cut your tax bill in half? Or are you going to buy a cup of coffee with that extra change?
 
sham w_a_w said:
if we eject dying people who are uncovered from hospitals, this is EXACTLY what would happen...they would die on the street and be cremated because it's the most cost effective option...run along unless you have something pertinent to add to the conversation
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Yes, pull the "im older so I know better card" it's really pro.

We provide basic emergency care now. Apparently youve decided that it doesnt "work," so you forget these little things.
 
Puddin Taine said:
I wondering how much money people would save if no illegal immigrants were to be facilitated in American hospitals..

Would it cut your tax bill in half? Or are you going to buy a cup of coffee with that extra change?
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I would take those 6 or 7 dimes and I would wave them in some cocky landscaper's face.
 
Sarcasmo said:
How many undocumented aliens show up to the hospital dying though? That seems like a remote occurence. I don't have a problem with those particular ones and I don't mind helping them. I have a problem with the tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who show up at Parkland Hospital's emergency room here in Dallas and use it as their primary care physician, causing residents like me to pay tens of millions of dollars a year in subsidy taxes. Money I could be using to care for my own child and my own family. But instead I'm giving it away.

I do have a choice though. Instead of remaining in the city where my job is, I could express my dissatisfaction with the system by moving to a rural community and taking a job in a different field that pays me 15% of my current salary. That'll show 'em.
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if they had insurance that covered preventative medicine they probably wouldn't do that. neither would dozens of american citizens who don't currently have insurance and thus must use the emergency room (the most expensive form of medicine available) for their primary care.
 
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If the government is going to be involved at all in health care then they need to fix the high cost of malpractice insurance and then make sure the doctors lower their bills accordingly. US malpractice insurance costs are way way higher than anywhere else in the world. (So is cell phone usage costs and internet usage costs. Go Capitalism.)

I can't wait to get stuck behind a group of people in the emergency room trying to pay with ebt insurance.
 
Face it or not but the illegals tend to be doing more useful work than most of the poorer class US citizens. It's because they are willing to work and do the jobs the US citizens feel is below them. But obviously they aren't too good for welfare. Fucking morons. Get off your damn front porch and go scrub a bathroom floor.
 
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