Ontopic Health Thread: post your AIDS, diseases and infekshunz here.

Mr. Argumentor

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Either way, once it gets into their flesh, its B12 - no matter the source.
Its the same dumb argument as "genetic engineering of plants isn't natural" despite the fact that we've been doing it for thousands of years. A misguided attempt to fix something that doesn't need it.
 

OOD

Yet ANOTHER ! Beautiful Bearded Rashner
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Its the same dumb argument as "genetic engineering of plants isn't natural" despite the fact that we've been doing it for thousands of years. A misguided attempt to fix something that doesn't need it.
Nobody said B12 supplements are bad though. We are way safer with the current sources of B12 than previous sources. They’re awesome and safe.
 

OOD

Yet ANOTHER ! Beautiful Bearded Rashner
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wha?

edit: This was my statement



Still fundamentally true.
And I agreed with that when you posted it and still do. This is all splitting hairs.
 

fly

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Because you immediately dismissed me and I was defending myself.
I just reread the posts, and it certainly doesn't seem that way. I stated twice that you get enough from animal products (which you now say you agree with), then you told me I was wrong and that you couldn't be arsed to help me understand.

I love you either way buddy. You can piss that B12 supplement out on me any time.
 
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OOD

Yet ANOTHER ! Beautiful Bearded Rashner
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I just reread the posts, and it certainly doesn't seem that way. I stated twice that you get enough from animal products (which you now say you agree with), then you told me I was wrong and that you couldn't be arsed to help me understand.

I love you either way buddy. You can piss that B12 supplement out on me any time.
I don’t think I said you where wrong about it being in animal products. I said you where wrong about it being in there naturally. Or if I did say something differently it wasn’t my intention.

Good middle ground to land on either way which is what I like to get out I’d a conversation. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect there’s some natural and some unnatural absorption of B12 in animals we eat, either is fine, but if you look at how most cattle are raise you won’t see much soil around them. Most are not grass feed. That’s why I will continue to supplement B12. It’s cheap and I like being safe rather than sorry. Maybe I’m overly cautious. I do shop at Walmart, so maybe not.

Love you too man. I’m happy to shove your biggest dildo up your ass while I shower you and maybe you can give me a little bit of that pinky finger. I’m a butthole virgin.
 
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wetwillie

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There’s no consistent natural source of B12 anymore, and you’ll die without it. You also don’t get much of a warning sign before a deficiency is irreversible.
@fly and @OOD I slightly disagree with both of you but I've had a very important reason to study this for decades, because of an inherited condition. But anyway, my understanding/belief is most people easily get enough regular B12, cyanocobalamin, in their diet. The more usual problem is it's not getting converted to the methyl form, methylcobalamin, which is what your nerves, brain and some other tissue need to do any rebuilding or maintenance of your shit. The conversion occurs in the liver, which is why I made the statement about them giving a B12 shot to alcoholics. SOme responded, those who were too far gone didn't. The state of art method for determining if a conversion issue exists is to do a nerve biopsy since a reliable tblop test for differentiating between the two forms of B12 doesn't exist. .

We've had this convo a number of times since I've came here.
 
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wetwillie

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Doing some more reading, it seems that chickens are supplemented B12, but cattle generally are not (as they mostly grass fed until finishing). Either way, once it gets into their flesh, its B12 - no matter the source. So I think my statement still stands, if you eat animal products, you're probably getting enough B12.

However, go ahead and supplement, as you'll just piss it out if your body doesn't need it. Oh wait, I see what you're doing...
No - read just the intro paragraph of the artilce Argumentor references. THe Bq2 you eat isn't biologically active. For people where the conversion is thrown off the amount you eat means nothing. Their body is still starving for B12. Common symptoms including shaking hands and legs.
 

wetwillie

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I've been kayaking all day - I don't really GAF, people either really dig in on nutritional issues or throw up their hands and say fuck it.

I'm glad if Dory is feeling better.
 
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OOD

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@fly and @OOD I slightly disagree with both of you but I've had a very important reason to study this for decades, because of an inherited condition. But anyway, my understanding/belief is most people easily get enough regular B12, cyanocobalamin, in their diet. The more usual problem is it's not getting converted to the methyl form, methylcobalamin, which is what your nerves, brain and some other tissue need to do any rebuilding or maintenance of your shit. The conversion occurs in the liver, which is why I made the statement about them giving a B12 shot to alcoholics. SOme responded, those who were too far gone didn't. The state of art method for determining if a conversion issue exists is to do a nerve biopsy since a reliable tblop test for differentiating between the two forms of B12 doesn't exist. .

We've had this convo a number of times since I've came here.
Correct. That’s all beside the point though. I didn’t dispute this or even bring it up.
 
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wetwillie

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Correct. That’s all beside the point though. I didn’t dispute this or even bring it up.
I was ranting - it's a multi-faceted issue that often forms around vegan/low-meat diets vs. hard core meat eaters. I agree with fly eating meat gets the basic form into your body but their are some vegan sources. And the supplement is tasty and cheap. I would take it even if I was eating tons of meat,eggs and stuff. My liver might not be converting it well - the supplement hops right over that shit. Like some of the other vitamins and minerals that are placed in food products by law.
 

OOD

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Not everyone wants to eat meat all the time. It's bad for you and fattening. I'll supplement, you take allergy shots.
What have you found on the relationship between animal protein and diabetes? I’ve heard the argument that animal protein causes type 2. Can’t say I’ve seen sufficient evidence for it though.