Halp Catholic beavers, I have a question that needs some clarification

he is directly responsible - he's the figurehead of the entire fucking church..

while he may not have had the oversight, or the knowledge, he's still responsible.

why beat this topic into remission?

I asked because I personally was confused by it. I had understood before that if there was a problem in the church, the buck stops at the pope. According to the news story and the Vatican attorneys, that might not be the case.

I just wanted clarification.
 
I asked because I personally was confused by it. I had understood before that if there was a problem in the church, the buck stops at the pope. According to the news story and the Vatican attorneys, that might not be the case.

I just wanted clarification.

the pope was absolved of his sins by the vatican a few weeks ago in a special ceremony - the vatican now believe that since he has been absolved of these sins he is no longer guilty of anything that went before him.

thankfully canon law is simply academic bullshit - i await justice to be served by common law, though i don't expect this to be the case.

i have nothing but contempt for the upper echelons of the catholic church - that's not to say however that run-of-the-mill preists i have met have been some of the most decent people i've ever been privy to. it's a pity about their management.
 
In that case only the bishop of the diocese is culpable.

the only thing that's going to restore faith in the catholic church is to fire every single bishop in the offending areas and allow the clergy to elect a new one.

but that's not going to happen under Ratzinger.
 
the pope was absolved of his sins by the vatican a few weeks ago in a special ceremony - the vatican now believe that since he has been absolved of these sins he is no longer guilty of anything that went before him.

thankfully canon law is simply academic bullshit - i await justice to be served by common law, though i don't expect this to be the case.

i have nothing but contempt for the upper echelons of the catholic church - that's not to say however that run-of-the-mill preists i have met have been some of the most decent people i've ever been privy to. it's a pity about their management.

Do you know what this event in pardoning the pope was? I find that really interesting because of the gift given to the pope of infallibility (at least of his rulings and directions of the church) that his humanity would have to be forgiven separately.

So the pope has separate humanity and religion, but states don't have separation from religion? Got it.
 
Do you know what this event in pardoning the pope was? I find that really interesting because of the gift given to the pope of infallibility (at least of his rulings and directions of the church) that his humanity would have to be forgiven separately.

So the pope has separate humanity and religion, but states don't have separation from religion? Got it.

On Easter Sunday, he had his innocence proclaimed “urbi et orbi” by the dean of the College of Cardinals.

It seems impossible to find a decent link - I read about it in the newspaper a few months back. The best article I can find for a read is the following. Note the author - this isn't some Lutheran pretender. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0416/1224268443283.html
 
Actually it is.

Pope = President
Major Arch Bishops = Senate majority speaker and speaker of the house
Cardinals = Senate
Arch Bishops = Governor
Bishop = Mayor

No it's not.. It's not the same structure. It's not implemented the same, nor is it held accountable in the same way.
 
On Easter Sunday, he had his innocence proclaimed “urbi et orbi” by the dean of the College of Cardinals.

It seems impossible to find a decent link - I read about it in the newspaper a few months back. The best article I can find for a read is the following. Note the author - this isn't some Lutheran pretender. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0416/1224268443283.html

http://idlespeculations-terryprest.blogspot.com/2010/04/dean-of-college-of-cardinals-pays.html

The Associated Press reports that Cardinal Angelo Sodano, dean of the College of Cardinals hailed Pope Benedict XVI at the start of Easter Mass as an unfailing and courageous leader of a flock that takes no heed of "petty gossip."
 
he is directly responsible - he's the figurehead of the entire fucking church..

while he may not have had the oversight, or the knowledge, he's still responsible.

That's a ridiculous argument. Are you seriously claiming he's directly responsible for the actions of adults living half the world away who happen to belong to his church?

I guess you're using the word "responsible" in a different way to me, but whatever.
 
That's a ridiculous argument. Are you seriously claiming he's directly responsible for the actions of adults living half the world away who happen to belong to his church?

I guess you're using the word "responsible" in a different way to me, but whatever.


Who happen? HAPPEN? to belong to his church? gtfo.
 
Who happen? HAPPEN? to belong to his church? gtfo.

huh?

Are you implying he made them join the church? I still don't get how he is directly responsible for their actions.

Not denying that he should condemn/ex-communicate such people and attempt to clean up his church. Yet I still don't get how he can be said to be 'responsible'. They're not kids, how the fuck is he meant to control their every action ?
 
huh?

Are you implying he made them join the church? I still don't get how he is directly responsible for their actions.

Not denying that he should condemn/ex-communicate such people and attempt to clean up his church. Yet I still don't get how he can be said to be 'responsible'. They're not kids, how the fuck is he meant to control their every action ?

I'm implying that the meat of the connection was made to seem insignificant in your post.

The responsibility of anything that happens due to the actions of someone acting under the guise of Catholicism belong to the Pope.
 
Well this certainly seems interesting.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0525/obama-backs-catholic-church-immunity-claim-sexual-abuse-lawsuits/

The White House has issued a brief to the Supreme Court backing the Vatican's claim that they should be immune from child molestation lawsuits brought in the United States.

The Supreme Court is considering an appeal by the Vatican of an appellate court ruling that lifted its immunity in the case of an alleged pedophile priest from Oregon. In a filing on Friday, the solicitor general's office argued that the Ninth Circuit court of appeals erred in allowing the lawsuit brought by a man who claims he was sexually abused in the 1960s by the Oregon priest. The unnamed plaintiff, who cited the Holy See and several other parties as defendants, argued the Vatican should be held responsible for transferring the priest to Oregon and letting him serve there despite previous accusations he had abused children in Chicago and in Ireland.

The Vatican argues that they have no legal relationship American dioceses, only a religious one.
 
My uncle was one of the lawyers for the arch diocese of Baltimore. I'm dying to ask him what he thinks about all this but unfortunately he's actually dead so I'd really have to die to ask him. I can argue that people halfway across the world should not be held individually responsible for the actions of those working under them, but as an organization they should be held accountable. That being said, if you rape someone at work, does your work get sued? In most cases I don't think so although it's not out of the realm of possibility. Mostly I think you just get to go rot in jail yourself. No amount of money takes away rape anyway and that's really what we are talking about here isn't it? I mean, the Vatican could only be held financially responsible. If they were really good people over there they wouldn't mind giving out money for this, they wouldn't mind doing anything they could for these victims. It's not like they aren't rich. I like that it's politics though, interesting stuff.
 
My uncle was one of the lawyers for the arch diocese of Baltimore. I'm dying to ask him what he thinks about all this but unfortunately he's actually dead so I'd really have to die to ask him. I can argue that people halfway across the world should not be held individually responsible for the actions of those working under them, but as an organization they should be held accountable. That being said, if you rape someone at work, does your work get sued? In most cases I don't think so although it's not out of the realm of possibility. Mostly I think you just get to go rot in jail yourself. No amount of money takes away rape anyway and that's really what we are talking about here isn't it? I mean, the Vatican could only be held financially responsible. If they were really good people over there they wouldn't mind giving out money for this, they wouldn't mind doing anything they could for these victims. It's not like they aren't rich. I like that it's politics though, interesting stuff.

if your employer knew you were a rapist and kept sweeping it under the rug, they'd get their pants sued off