Ask a gay man anything..

Thorn Bird

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May 24, 2005
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dave, maybe it's time to start looking at your own world, and not the world that's been arranged for you through others' eyes. take a look at what you're measuring yourself up against -- an honest look at what it is, face value -- and then see if you agree with those standards. if you do, then continue on. maybe you feel challenged to meet them. if you don't find that they fit you, then start working on making your own measuring stick for yourself, or do away with the measuring altogether. find what you need to find peace. do you think homosexuality is WRONG? (IMO: it can't be.) do you find it is a tweak of nature? (IMO: yes.) but so what? albino people are nature's mutations. my friend's special needs child is a nature "blip." does that make her invaluable? does that make her less than...and...less than WHAT? "AVERAGE?" average leaves out extremes from both sides. is anything that's not average WRONG?

you're too old to be so upset and discontent. and you're too young to be so old. start changing your own perception. you keep stating these "facts." you STATE "Gay people are nature's genetic mutation. This is reason enough to be treated as substandard and subhuman." even though i'm sure you don't believe it, you give it authority because you haven't QUESTIONED it. you can start restructuring your way of thinking. you'd be amazed at how reshaping your perception can change your quality of life.

you've been doing the same thing for twenty years. and it's not working for you. you are valuable enough to find peace, and therefore true happiness and contentedness with YOURSELF. you KNOW you have something amazing within...otherwise you wouldn't have landed a great guy like chim, right? so find it and be it and live it...and you're therefore proving it. show the world!...but you have to show your true self first. and it's a worthwhile investment to find him. :heart:
 

dbzeag

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dave, maybe it's time to start looking at your own world, and not the world that's been arranged for you through others' eyes. take a look at what you're measuring yourself up against -- an honest look at what it is, face value -- and then see if you agree with those standards. if you do, then continue on. maybe you feel challenged to meet them. if you don't find that they fit you, then start working on making your own measuring stick for yourself, or do away with the measuring altogether. find what you need to find peace. do you think homosexuality is WRONG? (IMO: it can't be.) do you find it is a tweak of nature? (IMO: yes.) but so what? albino people are nature's mutations. my friend's special needs child is a nature "blip." does that make her invaluable? does that make her less than...and...less than WHAT? "AVERAGE?" average leaves out extremes from both sides. is anything that's not average WRONG?

you're too old to be so upset and discontent. and you're too young to be so old. start changing your own perception. you keep stating these "facts." you STATE "Gay people are nature's genetic mutation. This is reason enough to be treated as substandard and subhuman." even though i'm sure you don't believe it, you give it authority because you haven't QUESTIONED it. you can start restructuring your way of thinking. you'd be amazed at how reshaping your perception can change your quality of life.

you've been doing the same thing for twenty years. and it's not working for you. you are valuable enough to find peace, and therefore true happiness and contentedness with YOURSELF. you KNOW you have something amazing within...otherwise you wouldn't have landed a great guy like chim, right? so find it and be it and live it...and you're therefore proving it. show the world!...but you have to show your true self first. and it's a worthwhile investment to find him. :heart:

:heart:
 

Sarcasmo

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Hunger, happiness, sadness, loyalty, things like that. Stuff you can't teach someone else. Stuff that is not learned.

Those are all things that you are allowing to be a burden. If I were gay and posed for pictures with butterflies on my face I wouldn't give half a shit about what society thought of me, or whether my parents or friends felt let down in some way. First of all that isn't love, so fuck 'em, and second of all I control my own destiny.

The only "fundamental" difference between heteros and homos is who they are attracted to. Talk about trivial. You want to breed? Donate sperm. Genetic mutation defeated. Don't want to be the butt of jokes? Welcome to the club. Ask black people about social panic disorders. Or Jews.

You get embarrassed about playing kiss the girls? Ask me how I felt this morning when I ate shit on the wet floor in the lobby this morning. Not the office lobby, the building lobby. In front of no less than 500 people. It's a fleeting moment, nothing more. And it's completely trivial. I might as well feel shame that I can't speak Mexican whenever I talk to Kiki because hey, Mexican people can. I bet they think I'm a silly gringo.

Laws? Gay people are just as protected by laws as persecuted. So you can't get married. Who gives a shit? You don't even think gay people should be able to so that can't be what's bothering you. What other laws are you talking about?

Custody? I personally know several gay people with children. Wonderful parents, each of them. Kids created through sperm donation and/or adoption. So obviously it's plenty doable. Now, perhaps you aren't interested in adoption because they aren't your flesh and blood. A lot of people feel that way. But that's your problem, not society's. If that's your stance then you need to somehow bury your nausea and screw a woman.

Ask the unwanted, forgotten children of the world about love. Talk to them about the sorry state of your life and see what they have to say about it. I bet they'd trade.
 

dbzeag

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Those are all things that you are allowing to be a burden. If I were gay and posed for pictures with butterflies on my face I wouldn't give half a shit about what society thought of me, or whether my parents or friends felt let down in some way. First of all that isn't love, so fuck 'em, and second of all I control my own destiny.
If I completely hated my family and wanted to disown them, this would be easy.

The only "fundamental" difference between heteros and homos is who they are attracted to. Talk about trivial. You want to breed? Donate sperm. Genetic mutation defeated. Don't want to be the butt of jokes? Welcome to the club. Ask black people about social panic disorders. Or Jews.

That's 20th century inventions to "trick" evolution. Personally I do not want children so that isn't an issue. But if I did, or even adopt, I couldn't do that even.

You get embarrassed about playing kiss the girls? Ask me how I felt this morning when I ate shit on the wet floor in the lobby this morning. Not the office lobby, the building lobby. In front of no less than 500 people. It's a fleeting moment, nothing more. And it's completely trivial. I might as well feel shame that I can't speak Mexican whenever I talk to Kiki because hey, Mexican people can. I bet they think I'm a silly gringo.

Slipping in a lobby is a fleeting event. The look of disgust my parents had for me when I didn't bring home a woman but instead brought a man continues. Daily childhood insults during school rubbed it in.

Laws? Gay people are just as protected by laws as persecuted. So you can't get married. Who gives a shit? You don't even think gay people should be able to so that can't be what's bothering you. What other laws are you talking about?
Um no, actually. Homosexuals are specifically excluded for rights such as visitation, employment, residency among others. Explicitly homosexuals cannot adopt children. All of this is variable state by state. This is over and above marriage rights. In Ohio, homosexuality is not a protected class, and there are many laws that are explicitly for heterosexual couples.

Custody? I personally know several gay people with children. Wonderful parents, each of them. Kids created through sperm donation and/or adoption. So obviously it's plenty doable. Now, perhaps you aren't interested in adoption because they aren't your flesh and blood. A lot of people feel that way. But that's your problem, not society's. If that's your stance then you need to somehow bury your nausea and screw a woman.

Obviously homosexuals can have kids through many ways. In Ohio, lesbians cannot get coverage for artificial insemination, nor can gays adopt, so that removes a bunch of options. Also, if there is a homosexual couple (of course not married or any other binding situation), only one can adopt, and even then that is sketchy because the adoption agency could use the homosexual environment as a detriment and deny the adoption request. Even if the children is one of the parent's birth parent, the other cannot be an adopted parent because that would be a homosexual relationship which is not allowed in Ohio.

Ask the unwanted, forgotten children of the world about love. Talk to them about the sorry state of your life and see what they have to say about it. I bet they'd trade.

I am sure there are many other people worse off than me. I just wish loving parents were allowed to love those children everywhere.
 

tre

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What would it take for you to be happy?

Society as a whole has a long way to go with respect to tolerance and equality, but we're slowly moving in the right direction. Are you better off being who you are in today's world than say, 100 years ago? Probably, yes. It's not going to be perfect, it never will.
 

dbzeag

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What would it take for you to be happy?

Society as a whole has a long way to go with respect to tolerance and equality, but we're slowly moving in the right direction. Are you better off being who you are in today's world than say, 100 years ago? Probably, yes. It's not going to be perfect, it never will.

This is very true.

I would be happy talking about chim to my coworkers without the fear of giving HR ammunition for laying me off. Or the ability to hold hands or to look deeply into chim's eyes while at dinner eating out without getting stares.

I would like the ability to have full rights to power of attorney or vistitation rights or tax breaks or anything else that is just "free" with a marriage (or at least couple recognition).
 
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Sarcasmo

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This is very true.

I would be happy talking about chim to my coworkers without the fear of giving HR ammunition for laying me off. Or the ability to hold hands or to look deeply into chim's eyes while at dinner eating out without getting stares.

I would like the ability to have full rights to power of attorney or vistitation rights or tax breaks or anything else that is just "free" with a marriage (or at least couple recognition).

Slaves never WANTED to pick cotton.

I'm just saying. Time has a way of fixing lame shit.
 

tre

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Sometimes you just gotta say "Fuck it" and do what you wanna do. Fuck the haters, it's not your fault they're intolerant. If you don't look deeply into his eyes during dinner, people are never going to accept it. It's not like you're going down on him under the table or anything. (are you?) :p
 

Thorn Bird

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like you said, it's the gays' turn to fight. who knows how long it will take, but at least it's happening and not being ignored. it might not happen till you're 50 or 80 or dead, but you're part of history.

yes, it sucks. the laws suck. but it's a slow change, like tre said. and it's in progress. so you move. the "law" might say one thing, but some business might offer something different. my girlfriends get health coverage together because my girl works at a big corporation over here. perfect? no? fair? not yet. but they have found what they need and want, and it's something. if ohio isn't what you need or want, find a different place. go modern! ;)
there comes a point in your battles where you have to make a choice. if you have options, you face them. you choose to accept and shut up or you choose to use your brain and figure out a more suitable way.
i realized this when i was working at a less than desirable place..one day i realized that people were tired of hearing me complain, and i was a very smart, successful person with OPTIONS. either i stick to the job with all its perks and STFU or i began pursuing other jobs. it was a very enlightening moment for me and can be applied to many different things in everyone's lives. and you know what? it took some of the ugly out of the job where i remained...turns out when i made a choice, it was easier to change my perception a little bit. i was more open and accepting then, which made it a little easier.


:heart: CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOR PEACE, DAVE.
 

dbzeag

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Slaves never WANTED to pick cotton.

I'm just saying. Time has a way of fixing lame shit.

Time doesn't fix shit. Continually changing people's minds through the generations, however, do. Just sitting down thinking of the same thing for years will not change anything. Exposure to different ideas and lots of exposure to as many people as possible changes minds. It is that effort that takes time, not just time itself marching by that changes minds.