Put on your tinfoil hats, folks

why_ask_why said:
you must be referring to the quote above
um, korea, vietnam and the 1st iraq were all peace keeping missions
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Korea - Communists! Russia refused to vote on the UN security council that week or the "police action" would never have occured.

Iraq I - Kuwait gives us oil. Of course we are going to help them out when they get invaded.

Vietnam - Goddamn communists trying to take over the world, part duex. ^__^
 
FlamingGlory said:
I made a post about unlawful orders that no one here read :(

US Troops have a RESPONSIBILITY not to follow any order that is against the UCMJ or Arts. of War. The entire point is moot. We have a professional military that understands the difference between war crimes and following orders.
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What point is moot? I guarantee anyone that had tried to stop the soldiers who were posing nude with the prisoners in Iraq, or left because of it, would have been tried as a deserter. Until, of course, the world found out and we took an about face on the issue.

Or do you think that only those that desert their posts are capable of breaking rules?
 
FlamingGlory said:
Korea - Communists! Russia refused to vote on the UN security council that week or the "police action" would never have occured.

Iraq I - Kuwait gives us oil. Of course we are going to help them out when they get invaded.

Vietnam - Goddamn communists trying to take over the world, part duex. ^__^
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all rook same...defensive

The Korean War was an episode in the Cold War. It seemed to be a war between South and North Korea, but America and Russia were using it to fight without having a ‘hot war’.

The USA went to war in Korea for three reasons. The first reason was the ‘Domino theory’ – China turned Communist in 1949 and Truman feared that the next ‘domino’ would be Japan. The second was to undermine Communism and protect the American way of life – in 1950 the American National Security Council recommended that America start 'rolling back' Communism. Thirdly, Truman realised the USA was in a competition for world domination with the USSR.

Russia went to war because Stalin wanted Communism to grow. In 1949, Kim Il Sung persuaded Stalin and Mao Tse Tung to support an invasion of South Korea.

In 1950, Syngman Rhee threatened to attack North Korea. It was an excuse – the trigger for war: the NKPA invaded South Korea
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Fat Burger said:
So any country should be able to ask us to invade their neighbor for any reason, and we carry no guilt?
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we invaded no one...we helped allies protect themselves
 
taeric said:
What point is moot? I guarantee anyone that had tried to stop the soldiers who were posing nude with the prisoners in Iraq, or left because of it, would have been tried as a deserter. Until, of course, the world found out and we took an about face on the issue.

Or do you think that only those that desert their posts are capable of breaking rules?
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Huh?

Those soldiers werent ordered to. They decided to. Their command structure had no idea what was going on (and their commander has been charged because of the lack of supervision). It was some white trash doing what they always wanted to do back home. They werent looked upon kindly by anyone else serving over there at the time.
 
why_ask_why said:
all rook same...defensive
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If it was defensive, then why did all the major battles take place a the border, or deep inside Nroth Korea? I can't enter your house and shoot you for trespassing.

EDIT:
Besides, we're talking about the reasons for US involvement. As you pointed out, the US wasn't involved because we thought South Korea was swell and should help them out. It was because we believed we were right and the Communists were wrong. The same is true with every other war I pointed out, to some extent.
 
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why_ask_why said:
we invaded no one...we helped allies protect themselves
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Britan was our ally in WWII but we didnt help them until Pearl Harbor. Actually they didnt even get involved until Poland was invaded.

The US likes going places, kicking ass and taking names. We've done it through our entire history. Only difference is you werent around for the other wars so whatever underhanded and sneaky reasons we had for 'helping' are lost to history and the official version stands.
 
FlamingGlory said:
Huh?

Those soldiers werent ordered to. They decided to. Their command structure had no idea what was going on (and their commander has been charged because of the lack of supervision). It was some white trash doing what they always wanted to do back home. They werent looked upon kindly by anyone else serving over there at the time.
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While I will agree I picked a bad example, I would be quite surprised if there wasn't at least one higher up that basically got away scott free. Granted, I'm cynical. :)

Wouldn't change the point that if they had had a similar ranked partner that left in objection to this, said person would be fucked right now.
 
Fat Burger said:
If it was defensive, then why did all the major battles take place a the border, or deep inside Nroth Korea? I can't enter your house and shoot you for trespassing.
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your scale is too small...we were pushing back the threat of global communism which was trying to wrest complete control of the area
 
FlamingGlory said:
Britan was our ally in WWII but we didnt help them until Pearl Harbor. Actually they didnt even get involved until Poland was invaded.

The US likes going places, kicking ass and taking names. We've done it through our entire history. Only difference is you werent around for the other wars so whatever underhanded and sneaky reasons we had for 'helping' are lost to history and the official version stands.
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that's because we were practicing something I WISH LIKE HELL we'd go back to...a stance of isolationism and not that of the neighborhood bully or cop
 
FlamingGlory said:
Actually they didnt even get involved until Poland was invaded.
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Uhh...until Poland, the war was only between Japan and China. I'm not sure why you would expect Britain to get involved earlier?

FlamingGlory said:
The US likes going places, kicking ass and taking names. We've done it through our entire history. Only difference is you werent around for the other wars so whatever underhanded and sneaky reasons we had for 'helping' are lost to history and the official version stands.
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Exactly, history is written by the people in charge. Of course what we know is going to be glossed over as much as possible by the people who were in the wrong.

Hell, according to an exchange student at my high school, it was less than a decade ago that Japan started admitting to it's students they lost WWII.
 
why_ask_why said:
your scale is too small...we were pushing back the threat of global communism which was trying to wrest complete control of the area
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So attacking countries across the globe who have never attacked us is ok as long as they're communist, but not if it's merely a suppresive dictatorship?
 
taeric said:
While I will agree I picked a bad example, I would be quite surprised if there wasn't at least one higher up that basically got away scott free. Granted, I'm cynical. :)

Wouldn't change the point that if they had had a similar ranked partner that left in objection to this, said person would be fucked right now.
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Of course deserting 6000 miles from home isnt a very good idea, no matter what your reason is :p

I'm sure someone got away free on that too, but the point I was trying to make is that they didnt have written orders against their objections to do what they did. None of them ever thought to call up the JAG office and ask if it was kosher (something which any soldier is allowed to do these days). It's a case of individuals breaking the law than a policy of illegality by the command structure.
 
why_ask_why said:
that's because we were practicing something I WISH LIKE HELL we'd go back to...a stance of isolationism and not that of the neighborhood bully or cop
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I'm not arguing an agenda here. Just pointing out how things stand at the moment. The fact is we arent isolationist, I really wouldnt have any problems with it if we were. Block off the border to mexico, get rid of NAFTA and occasionally invade some small islands in the pacific.

Ahh the life.
 
Fat Burger said:
So attacking countries across the globe who have never attacked us is ok as long as they're communist, but not if it's merely a suppresive dictatorship?
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again, this was "defensive" in nature because we were helping allies from being over run by communism

edit: no different than kuwait sans the communism
 
why_ask_why said:
again, this was "defensive" in nature because we were helping allies from being over run by communism
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But were they being overrun by communism? The majority of the people in the country thought that it would be better for them. We helped a minority who wanted to stay in power simply because their ideology was in line with ours.

As a democratic isolationist country we wouldve simply stepped back and dealt with the winner.

viz., post on history
 
why_ask_why said:
again, this was "defensive" in nature because we were helping allies from being over run by communism

edit: no different than kuwait sans the communism
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I disagree, but I don't think we're going to get anywhere discussing those any farther.

That still leaves the War of 1812, the Mexican War, and World War I.
 
FlamingGlory said:
But were they being overrun by communism? The majority of the people in the country thought that it would be better for them. We helped a minority who wanted to stay in power simply because their ideology was in line with ours.

As a democratic isolationist country we wouldve simply stepped back and dealt with the winner.

viz., post on history
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I don't think many people want george bush in office any longer but every country that deals with us will deal with his regime and not the people
 
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