Put on your tinfoil hats, folks

[JAXvillain]

The company I work for asks us to log all our time, detailing what we do every day. It takes hours more every week, and I hate it. I can't just decide not to do it. By working here I am agreeing to follow the decisions my superiors make, whether I think they're the right decisions or not.

By signing up for the army, you're obligated to go where they send you. If you can't handle the commitment, then don't sign up.

ok, so if you signed up and they started throwing people in ovens, you'd blindly follow along?? sure thing dude

 

[Fat Burger]

National Guard troops are the ones that are almost NEVER supposed to be activated. It looks like several of you are getting Reserves and NG mixed up. Not to mention alot of states have a State Guard which doesnt answer to federal authority...

They were for Afghanistan/Iraq, though.

 

[itburnswhenipee]

I thought there were national guard units overseas right now.

Also, and this is a little off topic:

I was watching some 'yay army' show on the history channel and they were talking about a Coast Guard vessel on patrol in the Persian Gulf.

doubleyou-tee-eff

What are United States Coast Guard vessels doing ten-thousand miles away from the United States coast?!

 

[eileenbunny]

Did the definition of "reserves" change in the last 5 years? I think people join the reserves thinking it'll be a free paycheck, they get to "play" army once in a while, and they can impress girls at parties. I'm sure some people take it seriously, but the ones who are shocked and appalled that they get called up because a war breaks out make me sick.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you 100%. Who joins the military and then acts surprised when someone asks them to fight in a war? Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[ZRH]

it was reasonable to assume up to this point anything we got involved in was going to be a peace keeping mission...afaik, in this country's entire history we have NEVER been the aggressor

bush broke 200+ years of standing policy and imo should almost be tried for war crimes

o_0

Mexican-American war - because we wanted Texas. We invaded the ENTIRE fucking country. ^__^
Spanish-American war - Obstensibly because we had a ship get torpedoed (although there was very little evidence to support it)
The Indian Wars - westward expansion
Occupation of Haiti - 1915, because they couldnt pay off their debt to the US
Police action in Nicaragua - 1928, because we didnt like how the country was being run

 

[Syrup Beaver]

it was reasonable to assume up to this point anything we got involved in was going to be a peace keeping mission...afaik, in this country's entire history we have NEVER been the aggressor

bush broke 200+ years of standing policy and imo should almost be tried for war crimes

Vietnam comes to mind, and NUMEROUS small conflicts where US troops were sent in.

Not to mention you would think people would've learned recently from the FIRST time we went to Iraq.

Regardless of whether the cause is just or not, (And for the record I don't think it is) these whiners signed the paperwork to join and waived their ability to get out of it. I have less than no sympathy.

 

[ZRH]

They were for Afghanistan/Iraq, though.

Yup. The thing is that you have to feel sorry for them though. They are equipped from state money and well... Imagine being in the CA NG who hasnt bought any new equipment since 1970. You don't have as much training as the AD or RD army, just a bad situation all around.

 

[JAXvillain]

o_0

Mexican-American war - because we wanted Texas. We invaded the ENTIRE fucking country. ^__^
Spanish-American war - Obstensibly because we had a ship get torpedoed (although there was very little evidence to support it)
The Indian Wars - westward expansion
Occupation of Haiti - 1915, because they couldnt pay off their debt to the US
Police action in Nicaragua - 1928, because we didnt like how the country was being run

Mexican-American war - because we wanted Texas. We invaded the ENTIRE fucking country. ^__^
- we were having land disputes over that territory for quite some time and they were trying to expand into cali...it was classifiable as defensive in that regard, no?

Spanish-American war - Obstensibly because we had a ship get torpedoed (although there was very little evidence to support it)
- torpedoed ship, nuff said there

Occupation of Haiti - 1915, because they couldnt pay off their debt to the US
- not an actual war...might as well have brought up grenada

Police action in Nicaragua - 1928, because we didnt like how the country was being run
- not an actual war

 

[taeric]

Credit card raising interest is different, you can balance transfer to a new one.

If the adjustable rate mortgage goes up to 18% it's because that's what the interest rates have gone up to, there's no way to refinance for a better deal. In other words, them's the breaks. Happened to a LOT of people in the late 80's...

The topics are different, sure; but if you think the thought process behind the two are different, wake the fuck up. Stupidity in looking at people's responses is not excused by how stupid those responses are.

Do I think they should get off. No, but neither do I think it is a fair system. Fact of the matter is that until relatively recently the reserves were a relatively free paycheck. Whats worse, it was marketed that way. The recruiters were pushing it as such. In other words, the reserves was damned near custom designed to have a horrible desertion rate. It is just that there has never been a problem in the past.

 

[JAXvillain]

Vietnam comes to mind, and NUMEROUS small conflicts where US troops were sent in.

Not to mention you would think people would've learned recently from the FIRST time we went to Iraq.

Regardless of whether the cause is just or not, (And for the record I don't think it is) these whiners signed the paperwork to join and waived their ability to get out of it. I have less than no sympathy.

first time we went to iraq was in a peace keeping capacity for kuwait as you know

 

[Syrup Beaver]

ok, so if you signed up and they started throwing people in ovens, you'd blindly follow along?? sure thing dude

Well, if you didn't - you would likely have to accept the consequences for desertion ( if you got caught )

Luckily it's just jail in this country.

Of course you'd be pardoned 30 years later when the inevitable dictatorship was overthrown and the mess straightened out

 

[Syrup Beaver]

The topics are different, sure; but if you think the thought process behind the two are different, wake the fuck up. Stupidity in looking at people's responses is not excused by how stupid those responses are.

Do I think they should get off. No, but neither do I think it is a fair system. Fact of the matter is that until relatively recently the reserves were a relatively free paycheck. Whats worse, it was marketed that way. The recruiters were pushing it as such. In other words, the reserves was damned near custom designed to have a horrible desertion rate. It is just that there has never been a problem in the past.

I think it's perfectly fair, it's all right there in black and white in the stuff you sign when you join.

I read the stuff I sign, I dunno about you

 

[Syrup Beaver]

first time we went to iraq was in a peace keeping capacity for kuwait as you know

Oh pul-leeeze, what a waste of time, life, and effort that all was.

 

[taeric]

I think it's perfectly fair, it's all right there in black and white in the stuff you sign when you join.

I read the stuff I sign, I dunno about you

Doesn't change the fact that you are fucking stupid if you think everyone else does. Or if you are surprised when many people try to desert on what they signed up for when they realize it isn't as perfect as they were led to believe it would be.

 

[Syrup Beaver]

The topics are different, sure; but if you think the thought process behind the two are different, wake the fuck up. Stupidity in looking at people's responses is not excused by how stupid those responses are.

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

The credit card interest rate going up is something that you are not able to predict, doesn't happen to everyone, and is easy to resolve.

Signing for an adjustable mortgage and NOT considering the fact that interest rates could soar (Which affects everybody with those mortgages, and new mortgages), is incredibly dumb.

 

[Syrup Beaver]

Doesn't change the fact that you are fucking stupid if you think everyone else does. Or if you are surprised when many people try to desert on what they signed up for when they realize it isn't as perfect as they were led to believe it would be.

Nope, I don't think everyone does, nor am I surprised that there are desertions.

Nevertheless, I have no sympathy and think people should be responsible for the path they've chosen.


You're awfully testy today there cheif

 

[ZRH]

Mexican-American war - because we wanted Texas. We invaded the ENTIRE fucking country. ^__^
- we were having land disputes over that territory for quite some time and they were trying to expand into cali...it was classifiable as defensive in that regard, no?
California wasnt a US state at the time, it was a republic. The entire war was based around 'manifest destiny'. I have absolutely no problem with it, but if it happened with the mentality the country has now youd get the same bitching and crying.

Spanish-American war - Obstensibly because we had a ship get torpedoed (although there was very little evidence to support it)
- torpedoed ship, nuff said there
There was no torpedo. Read up, quite possibly coal dust happened to sink the ship. Regardless Spain was getting uppity and we wanted the West Indies et al.

Occupation of Haiti - 1915, because they couldnt pay off their debt to the US
- not an actual war...might as well have brought up grenada

Police action in Nicaragua - 1928, because we didnt like how the country was being run
- not an actual war

The last two were actually wars, shockingly. With people dying. They usually get glossed over because of the timing. We also invaded China once, and Libya. Gulf War I wasnt exactly two sided... Before Afghanistan one of the more unpopular postings was Venezula (cant sp?) because we were there peace keeping although the news NEVER covered it.

 

[Fat Burger]

afaik, in this country's entire history we have NEVER been the aggressor

That point is debateable. We weren't attacked by Vietnam, Korea, or Iraq in the 90s. We also entered World War 1 without any attacks against us. Mexico never attacked, they just wanted Texas back. We also declared the war of 1812 without being attacked first.

Really the only wars where there was a clear attack against us first was the Spanish American War and World War II.

I agree with your point in as much as this war is the most unprovoked in history. But it's not quite as black and white, in my opinion.

EDIT:
Damn, beaten while I verified my facts. I won't make that mistake again :tongue:

 

[JAXvillain]

The last two were actually wars, shockingly. With people dying. They usually get glossed over because of the timing. We also invaded China once, and Libya. Gulf War I wasnt exactly two sided... Before Afghanistan one of the more unpopular postings was Venezula (cant sp?) because we were there peace keeping although the news NEVER covered it.

occupation and police actions aren't wars

 

[water]

it was reasonable to assume up to this point anything we got involved in was going to be a peace keeping mission...afaik, in this country's entire history we have NEVER been the aggressor

bush broke 200+ years of standing policy and imo should almost be tried for war crimes

, K that's a lovely opinion and all, but as Chikken said it's completely irrelevant to this discussion. Reservists take an oath to defend the country and follow orders from up the chain, not to let their personal views and BS political agendas determine whether or not they stay and fight or walk out like a pansy.

In addition to Fatburger's post: We also declared war on Germany without any direct attack made by them prior, and you didn't list Kosovo.

occupation and police actions aren't wars

Now you're just grabbing at straws.