Memory
- Thread starter ZRH
- Start date
In greater response to April and others more in general:
I am not an expert on the human mind. I cant tell you how it works, actually, no one could. There are entire fields of science devoted to understanding it. All I can do is point to some practical things that appear to work.
I outlined in general the specific way that I recall things. This doesn’t assume that everyone is able to do that specific set of things to achieve such a result. Great emphasis should be placed on finding out what works for you in particular.
Apparently, a long time ago, people were taught how to think more than they were taught what to think. I figured this out in my freshman year of HS when I essentially had done everything there was to do in the state mandated curriculum. [My last three years of HS, even till now, have essentially consisted of me teaching myself things. That is another topic though.] What became apparent through reading a great deal of material, that I had thought was boring but ran out of books, was that learning how to think is a far more useful skill than remembering trivia by rote.
Fortunately a lot has been written on methods of thinking. The most important part of which is generally just “problem solving.” Almost anything can be placed in the form of a problem. If there is a problem, there is a solution (if you ask why there must be a solution, I direct you to philosophy
.) There is a specific method involved in solving any problem, I guess we could call this Heuristics. It’s not terribly complicated to learn, and will place a great number of things into their proper context, not to mention the novelty of solving a problem by yourself does not fade quickly. [This was an answer to your part about remembering false facts.]
The second thing would be how to place the proper information in it’s proper place. There are a million different things I’ve seen to do about this. The basics of all are related to remembering loci in relation to the fact and being able to link between one loci and another. A loci (it just means place) can be anything, colours, feelings, visual maps, buildings, etc. This is where explaining it gets fuzzy. Some people (apparently, remember: not an expert) seem to be better at remembering loci related to facts, and some people (myself) are just skip the locus and grasp things how they are intuitively. I practiced this skill at work a lot (very boring jobs) by just picking a random topic, then trying to remember every aspect of the topic in relation to other topics. The relationship between the topics are more my loci as opposed to something arbitrary like a colour.
The thing is that somehow problem solving and understanding facts are related. I couldn’t say “how” though. All I know is that once I could figure out problems related to various topics, I could recall the topics in great detail. [You may wonder how this helps with literature but for some reason I recall literature and the like as pictures, not words. Grammar is another one, a lot of the time I cant tell “why” a piece of text is “wrong” but it literally “feels” like it is. I blame it on my mother who spoke perfect BBC-style English when I was young.]
I am not an expert on the human mind. I cant tell you how it works, actually, no one could. There are entire fields of science devoted to understanding it. All I can do is point to some practical things that appear to work.
I outlined in general the specific way that I recall things. This doesn’t assume that everyone is able to do that specific set of things to achieve such a result. Great emphasis should be placed on finding out what works for you in particular.
Apparently, a long time ago, people were taught how to think more than they were taught what to think. I figured this out in my freshman year of HS when I essentially had done everything there was to do in the state mandated curriculum. [My last three years of HS, even till now, have essentially consisted of me teaching myself things. That is another topic though.] What became apparent through reading a great deal of material, that I had thought was boring but ran out of books, was that learning how to think is a far more useful skill than remembering trivia by rote.
Fortunately a lot has been written on methods of thinking. The most important part of which is generally just “problem solving.” Almost anything can be placed in the form of a problem. If there is a problem, there is a solution (if you ask why there must be a solution, I direct you to philosophy
.) There is a specific method involved in solving any problem, I guess we could call this Heuristics. It’s not terribly complicated to learn, and will place a great number of things into their proper context, not to mention the novelty of solving a problem by yourself does not fade quickly. [This was an answer to your part about remembering false facts.]The second thing would be how to place the proper information in it’s proper place. There are a million different things I’ve seen to do about this. The basics of all are related to remembering loci in relation to the fact and being able to link between one loci and another. A loci (it just means place) can be anything, colours, feelings, visual maps, buildings, etc. This is where explaining it gets fuzzy. Some people (apparently, remember: not an expert) seem to be better at remembering loci related to facts, and some people (myself) are just skip the locus and grasp things how they are intuitively. I practiced this skill at work a lot (very boring jobs) by just picking a random topic, then trying to remember every aspect of the topic in relation to other topics. The relationship between the topics are more my loci as opposed to something arbitrary like a colour.
The thing is that somehow problem solving and understanding facts are related. I couldn’t say “how” though. All I know is that once I could figure out problems related to various topics, I could recall the topics in great detail. [You may wonder how this helps with literature but for some reason I recall literature and the like as pictures, not words. Grammar is another one, a lot of the time I cant tell “why” a piece of text is “wrong” but it literally “feels” like it is. I blame it on my mother who spoke perfect BBC-style English when I was young.]
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I blame your teachers tooWhen you put it that way, unconsciously we all reason the information we receive that way. It's the understanding part that I don't grasp. When I was in middle school, being the fastest reader got you recognition from the teacher. I now read super fast, but it never sinks in. Bad teaching on the teachers part.
I've been practicing slowing down lately.
I taught myself a lot. If you could imagine your education being locked in a room full of books 6~ hours a day with nothing else to do you have most of middle school - HS covered for me.Exactly, more or less, I think.
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I've tried that, I have more fun when I bullshit.
"Have you read Dante's 'Inferno'?"
"Not in English."
with one completely factual statement I have told three lies:
1. I've read the book.
2. I'm fluent in 14th century Italian.
3. I'm such a literary connoisseur that a mere translation just wouldn't suffice.
<3 reader's digest
"Have you read Dante's 'Inferno'?"
"Not in English."
with one completely factual statement I have told three lies:
1. I've read the book.
2. I'm fluent in 14th century Italian.
3. I'm such a literary connoisseur that a mere translation just wouldn't suffice.
<3 reader's digest
eileenbunny
Druish Princess
I'm terrible at remembering things I've read. I learn by doing. Once I've done something once it is stuck in my head. It works well for me as I seem to be getting through life okay. I have lots of friends and people that love me. I don't care that I can't tell you about the books I was forced to read and do a report on in high school. None of it really matters in the grander scheme of things. I'll admit when I'm wrong, but I rarely change my opinion when the discussion isn't based on proven facts. I believe there are very few things in this world that are concrete. I'm very opinionated and I like it that way. I've spent 30 years developing these opinions, so I must have good reason for them.
I'll talk about topics I know a lot about or little about. I learn that way provided I respect the person I'm talking to, otherwise I generally dismiss anything they have to say. If I really respect the person I might even change my mind about something if I'm given good reason to. I have been told more than once that I am great at arguing although I try not to do it so much anymore because people get so annoyed and tired of it. Most people don't feel like thinking that much. It's a bad thing in this world to come off as arrogant regardless of how much or how little you know.
I suppose people are more important to me than facts in books. I remember details about people more than anything. I can probably tell you every important thing Dan and I have ever discussed and even some of the unimportant things. I can do the same for most of my family members and my closest friends. I don't know how I recall such things, but I think it has something to do with such things being important to me. I've never really thought about it.
If I want to learn something from a book I have to write it down after I have read it. I really have to be interested in the topic to bother with that though. Having a bunch of information floating around my head seems useless to me. I generally know where to look stuff up if I need to know or am curious, and that's good enough for me. I'm terrible at trivial pursuit because of this.
I'm also only somewhat good at grammer. My mother was a grammer nazi and would constantly correct me. I think that as long as I get my point across it isn't important. I do understand that in the business world this isn't the case so I pay attention if/when I have a job. Overall ideas are generally more important to me than if the author has a dangling participle.
I've also learned how important it is to be careful what you say and how to say it to other people. You don't get anywhere in a conversation by insulting others or hurting their egos. It isn't nice, it isn't necessary and it inhibits your ability to learn anything from them. I look at everyone I encounter as a possibility of learning something new or seeing the world from a new perspective. Everyone has their own viewpoint and most people want to believe that they know what they are talking about. It is better to say "you might be right, but have you thought about it this way" than to say "you are sooo wrong and you are a complete idiot". Sure, you can be 100% sure you are right about a topic, but a debate rarely needs to end on a sour note if handled properly. I like that you used the the word 'humbleness' in the OP because to me it is exactly how people should approach other people all the time.
Learning and remembering is different for everyone. We each find our own way in this world. I don't think I'm right or other people are. It just seems to be about what is important to the individual.
I'll talk about topics I know a lot about or little about. I learn that way provided I respect the person I'm talking to, otherwise I generally dismiss anything they have to say. If I really respect the person I might even change my mind about something if I'm given good reason to. I have been told more than once that I am great at arguing although I try not to do it so much anymore because people get so annoyed and tired of it. Most people don't feel like thinking that much. It's a bad thing in this world to come off as arrogant regardless of how much or how little you know.
I suppose people are more important to me than facts in books. I remember details about people more than anything. I can probably tell you every important thing Dan and I have ever discussed and even some of the unimportant things. I can do the same for most of my family members and my closest friends. I don't know how I recall such things, but I think it has something to do with such things being important to me. I've never really thought about it.
If I want to learn something from a book I have to write it down after I have read it. I really have to be interested in the topic to bother with that though. Having a bunch of information floating around my head seems useless to me. I generally know where to look stuff up if I need to know or am curious, and that's good enough for me. I'm terrible at trivial pursuit because of this.
I'm also only somewhat good at grammer. My mother was a grammer nazi and would constantly correct me. I think that as long as I get my point across it isn't important. I do understand that in the business world this isn't the case so I pay attention if/when I have a job. Overall ideas are generally more important to me than if the author has a dangling participle.
I've also learned how important it is to be careful what you say and how to say it to other people. You don't get anywhere in a conversation by insulting others or hurting their egos. It isn't nice, it isn't necessary and it inhibits your ability to learn anything from them. I look at everyone I encounter as a possibility of learning something new or seeing the world from a new perspective. Everyone has their own viewpoint and most people want to believe that they know what they are talking about. It is better to say "you might be right, but have you thought about it this way" than to say "you are sooo wrong and you are a complete idiot". Sure, you can be 100% sure you are right about a topic, but a debate rarely needs to end on a sour note if handled properly. I like that you used the the word 'humbleness' in the OP because to me it is exactly how people should approach other people all the time.
Learning and remembering is different for everyone. We each find our own way in this world. I don't think I'm right or other people are. It just seems to be about what is important to the individual.
things i think about this topic:
age has something to do with memory and learning techniques. not only because your brain ages, but because, as eileen and flaming have both demonstrated (from different ages,) your perception and life have a lot to do with it. the lives each, for example, have lived have shaped their brains on how they learn and interpret. april demonstrated this too when talking about how she learned to learn was from a teaching method. people learn how to learn in different ways, and this also is constantly amended. eileen might have been closer to flaming's ways 15 years ago...but her experiences have added and molded and changed her ways. experiences in life shape how you learn.
and brains simply are not the same. you hear it all the time...left-brain vs. right-brain, the seven skills of learning (http://www.lessontutor.com/sm1.html for the seven)...no matter how intricate flaming gets in his explanation of how HE learns, it is not a proven, effective formula for all. hell, even his post on it might lose the attention of many simply because they don't retain the written word well.
some of the problems spange and i come across in our communication skills have to do with this. our brains and they way they function are very different...you can't correct it, so we have to find ways to deal with it. we will never learn the same ways.
and some of it is ability vs. care. i know that i can sit down and learn a computer inside and out. i can learn programs and codes and all that CRAP. but that's it -- my level of interest is NOT there. i can learn anything i want to because i have the ability, and i know i do, but if the interest isn't there, i don't want to extend the effort to learn something i don't like. these days, i do not want to be spending spare time learning something i don't want to know. i just really don't want to know how to change the oil in my car. i'm sure i can learn, but the value of my time and my brain's space is not worth filling with car stuff.
and it always takes practice/exercise. i think this is true no matter WHAT kind of brain you have. every brain should have exercise. this is something i've learned to value as a stay-at-home mom...i have lost a lot of brain (intelligence, even) by not hearing about news, not having grown-up interaction every day, not studying or learning something, dealing with CONSTANT interruptions...i can go on. i feel like i have brain rot, and it's very intimidating. it's also the way it is for now. i've decided to dedicate myself to others for a time, and that's not a bad thing, either. but the exercise of my brain has greatly declined, and i can tell a difference.
so now that i MYSELF have written a book and lost most of the audience i began with, i'll stop. my point is that there are many different factors to the ways a person learns and retains. no one formula is going to work for all.
age has something to do with memory and learning techniques. not only because your brain ages, but because, as eileen and flaming have both demonstrated (from different ages,) your perception and life have a lot to do with it. the lives each, for example, have lived have shaped their brains on how they learn and interpret. april demonstrated this too when talking about how she learned to learn was from a teaching method. people learn how to learn in different ways, and this also is constantly amended. eileen might have been closer to flaming's ways 15 years ago...but her experiences have added and molded and changed her ways. experiences in life shape how you learn.
and brains simply are not the same. you hear it all the time...left-brain vs. right-brain, the seven skills of learning (http://www.lessontutor.com/sm1.html for the seven)...no matter how intricate flaming gets in his explanation of how HE learns, it is not a proven, effective formula for all. hell, even his post on it might lose the attention of many simply because they don't retain the written word well.
some of the problems spange and i come across in our communication skills have to do with this. our brains and they way they function are very different...you can't correct it, so we have to find ways to deal with it. we will never learn the same ways.
and some of it is ability vs. care. i know that i can sit down and learn a computer inside and out. i can learn programs and codes and all that CRAP. but that's it -- my level of interest is NOT there. i can learn anything i want to because i have the ability, and i know i do, but if the interest isn't there, i don't want to extend the effort to learn something i don't like. these days, i do not want to be spending spare time learning something i don't want to know. i just really don't want to know how to change the oil in my car. i'm sure i can learn, but the value of my time and my brain's space is not worth filling with car stuff.
and it always takes practice/exercise. i think this is true no matter WHAT kind of brain you have. every brain should have exercise. this is something i've learned to value as a stay-at-home mom...i have lost a lot of brain (intelligence, even) by not hearing about news, not having grown-up interaction every day, not studying or learning something, dealing with CONSTANT interruptions...i can go on. i feel like i have brain rot, and it's very intimidating. it's also the way it is for now. i've decided to dedicate myself to others for a time, and that's not a bad thing, either. but the exercise of my brain has greatly declined, and i can tell a difference.
so now that i MYSELF have written a book and lost most of the audience i began with, i'll stop. my point is that there are many different factors to the ways a person learns and retains. no one formula is going to work for all.
The whole humble thing is actually something I learned playing sports. People will fall over themselves to teach you something in athletics if you say you'd like to try it. At least in my experience anyway. So it's like haha, I could do this in application to everything.
I was trying to stress the individual thing as well. [Which thornbird apparently missed]
But a lot of the original posters here share a lot of traits and April asked. I definitely think it is one of those things you just have to keep trying until something clicks. Understanding, knowledge, and application are definitely three things that cant be taught, though I'm sure there are groups of people who think in /similar/ ways, it's just something that comes to you, not something taught by this method from A to B to C.
eileenbunny
Druish Princess
The whole humble thing is actually something I learned playing sports. People will fall over themselves to teach you something in athletics if you say you'd like to try it. At least in my experience anyway. So it's like haha, I could do this in application to everything.
I was trying to stress the individual thing as well. [Which thornbird apparently missed]
I think you should go back and play some more sports then.
Regardless you are correct, some people are better at putting things together in their heads than others. Some people are better at putting different kinds of things together in their heads than others. You understand books and abstract ideas written by people hundreds of years ago, of course not exclusively. I understand people sitting in front of me today and how they are likely to react to a situation, again not exclusively. It's just different perspective and I do believe that to a point it can be taught or learned. There needs to be a will to learn though. You said yourself that learning and honing your memory takes discipline and practice.
I have a photographic memory. Sometimes it fails me though. I remember taking tests in high school and I could tell you exactly what page and where the answer in my notes was, but couldn't recall the answer for the life of me.
I am also similar to eileen, if I'm learning a new skill I can read and read about it, but the only way I'm ever going to actually remember it is by just doing it.
I am also similar to eileen, if I'm learning a new skill I can read and read about it, but the only way I'm ever going to actually remember it is by just doing it.
We are visual learners. People who can read on it are something else. Took a psych course last class and I obviously didn't retain much.
My memory just plain ole sucks. It's not from lack of using it (or trying to at least) it just sucks. It fails me more oftem than not. If it weren't for post it notes, I'd be seriously screwed.
We are visual learners. People who can read on it are something else. Took a psych course last class and I obviously didn't retain much.
http://www.lessontutor.com/sm1.html is this kind of what you are referring to?