WTF Bad boys, Bad boys, whatcha gonna do

ZRH

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Mar 5, 2005
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"...Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even talk, alone; you don't want to 'go out of your way to make trouble.' Why not?-Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty. Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, 'everyone' is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, 'It's not so bad' or 'You're seeing things' or 'You're an alarmist.'

And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have....

But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked-if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in '43 had come immediately after the 'German Firm' stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in '33. But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying 'Jewish swine,' collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in-your nation, your people-is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way."

-Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-1945
Read but you've got to admit it's a stretch
 

ZRH

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Mar 5, 2005
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also sure, we probably don't have death squads in the US yet so far as we are aware, but if you can't understand how incremental changes can add up, I really don't know what to tell you.
Nope.nope.nope
 

august

I’m always wet in my basement area
Sep 23, 2006
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I mean that's on you. If you can think in court you can prove that identified (lanyard/shouting) police were notifying you that you were under arrest and you didn't believe them and resisted. Good on ya cause that's not a bet I'd make.
and if you can't see how this opens up people with less than lawful intent to pose as law enforcement and scare people into compliance with kidnapping, that's on you. people will have to choose between complying possibly with unlawful arrest or resisting what may turn out to be lawful arrest. you're asking people who aren't cops to be able to immediately identify what are effectively random dudes as cops based on the fact that they say so, and because they have lanyards that you can't read very well as you're getting yanked off your skateboard in the middle of the street.
 

ZRH

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and if you can't see how this opens up people with less than lawful intent to pose as law enforcement and scare people into compliance with kidnapping, that's on you. people will have to choose between complying possibly with unlawful arrest or resisting what may turn out to be lawful arrest. you're asking people who aren't cops to be able to immediately identify what are effectively random dudes as cops based on the fact that they say so, and because they have lanyards that you can't read very well as you're getting yanked off your skateboard in the middle of the street.
Because there's s a long history of that happening? I've seen case law on that and it's not promising on the side of the aresstee.

Hell it isnt even promising on the side of ruby ridge.
 

august

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Sep 23, 2006
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Because there's s a long history of that happening? I've seen case law on that and it's not promising on the side of the aresstee.

Hell it isnt even promising on the side of ruby ridge.
I've watched Proud Boys try it in Seattle and Portland, and while they could, in fact, be charged & prosecuted for it (which is unlikely to happen given that cops have been cooperating with them), it doesn't un-maim the people they're maiming.
 

august

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like that argument is the same as advocating not needing to look both ways when you cross at a pedestrian crossing if you have the right of way. if my ass gets hit, I may legally be absolved of fault, but that absolution may be posthumous and of little use.
 

wetwillie

Know-It-All Pee-Paw
May 24, 2018
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like that argument is the same as advocating not needing to look both ways when you cross at a pedestrian crossing if you have the right of way. if my ass gets hit, I may legally be absolved of fault, but that absolution may be posthumous and of little use.
Being to the right doesn't automatically grant you the right of way and does not excuse you from slowing down before entering the intersection. If you just blast into an intersection under that theory you might be found more than 50% proximate cause of your injuries. Which means no bad on the other person - you tipped the odds, not them.
 

august

I’m always wet in my basement area
Sep 23, 2006
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Being to the right doesn't automatically grant you the right of way and does not excuse you from slowing down before entering the intersection. If you just blast into an intersection under that theory you might be found more than 50% proximate cause of your injuries. Which means no bad on the other person - you tipped the odds, not them.
my writing was meant to be from the POV of a pedestrian getting hit

that is, just because you may have the right of way in terms of crossing the street & cars have to stop for pedestrians doesn't mean they're going to, & the fact that they were wrong doesn't un-run you over
 

august

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I am aware that whether pedestrians have absolute right of way at a crossing obviously varies by location, but I really didn't think I needed to be that specific, especially given the shit I get for verbosity.
 

Jehannum

HO HO HO METH GIANT
Jul 24, 2013
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my writing was meant to be from the POV of a pedestrian getting hit

that is, just because you may have the right of way in terms of crossing the street & cars have to stop for pedestrians doesn't mean they're going to, & the fact that they were wrong doesn't un-run you over
Can't you just say "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" and get the point across?
 

august

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Can't you just say "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" and get the point across?
sort of? except in the original scenario of proud boys and/or cops abducting you, you might get carried by 6 either way
 
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wetwillie

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my writing was meant to be from the POV of a pedestrian getting hit

that is, just because you may have the right of way in terms of crossing the street & cars have to stop for pedestrians doesn't mean they're going to, & the fact that they were wrong doesn't un-run you over
I'm not agreeing they WERE wrong - there are always exceptions to the rule.
Sometimes the pedestrian's right to go into the cross walk is open for interpretation. A jogger is legally a pedestrian, but a car operator can't anticipate the jogger will not consider how their increased speed vs. a walker means they shouldn't just power across. Right of way be damned.
I almost ran over a dude once who was jogging and in a fit of pumped up joggermeist turned and just started across the fucking road without looking - someone I knew!! Of course, there was the other time I DID hit the drunk guy - but he was dancing in a busy 4 lane. He was lucky, just knocked him onto the grass. He'd almost made it - 3.5 lanes!
 

august

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I'm not agreeing they WERE wrong - there are always exceptions to the rule.
:case:
yes, there are almost always exceptions to anything, but for the sake of my example they were not wrong & you're just being contrary for the sake of it right now.
 
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august

I’m always wet in my basement area
Sep 23, 2006
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my writing was meant to be from the POV of a pedestrian getting hit

that is, just because you may have the right of way in terms of crossing the street & cars have to stop for pedestrians doesn't mean they're going to, & the fact that they were wrong doesn't un-run you over

I am aware that whether pedestrians have absolute right of way at a crossing obviously varies by location, but I really didn't think I needed to be that specific, especially given the shit I get for verbosity.
BUt, but - you argued like there are NEVER exceptions. fail.
 

august

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my original
like that argument is the same as advocating not needing to look both ways when you cross at a pedestrian crossing if you have the right of way. if my ass gets hit, I may legally be absolved of fault, but that absolution may be posthumous and of little use.
 
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august

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my intent was clear & I still kneecapped it with mays and clarified with explicit acknowledgement that laws vary.

you know what I was saying, you know what I meant, you just wanted to argue.
 

august

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tenor.gif
 
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