Thread Assassinating US Citizens

SemperFly said:
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TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2381

§ 2381. TREASON

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


it's not an automatic death sentence.
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not automatic, no. in this case it was warranted because he had every opportunity to turn himself in if he wished to stand trial and clear his name
 
bottom line, dude was on the run from the law and got killed because of it. He had plenty of opportunities to exercise his legal rights and he chose not to...


So it's really his parents fault for raising a nutjob.
 
fly said:
That doesn't mean that he doesn't have rights. We're fucking America, not Israel.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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As I'm sure it's been said many times already he's been given a chance to turn himself in if he wanted the due process of the US. Given he didn't and his continued actions I can see how they would justify this or even it fitting the grounds of the DOS's rules for losing your citizenship. Yes they are things you can do that will make you lose your citizenship. It's not a 100% forever no matter what you do coverage. And honestly speaking this is no different than someone in the US having the old "Dead or Alive" put on them.
 
shamwow said:
doesn't the guy have freaking youtube videos declaring jihad on the US? do we really need a trial here? I don't think he was just going to peacefully surrender to be tried either
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Did you not notice my mention of being tried in absentia?
Duke said:
No. But the country is not being run on my 'opinion'.

We have tasked the government to look out for the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for the people of the united states. If they have to take an action like this to protect the greater good, against a person who wishes death & destruction on many people because of ideology, who actively partakes in actions of the same, who heads a known terrorist organization... Allowing him to hide behind his 'citizenship' while operating in a foreign country is stupid.

What is the difference between killing this guy and Bin Laden, besides the question of 'citizenship'?
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Yeah, what an asshole hiding behind the Rights this country was founded on. While we're at it, lets just call everyone that died for these rights and freedoms an asshole too.

And citizenship is EXACTLY the difference here dude. Jesus
 
fly said:
Did you not notice my mention of being tried in absentia?


Yeah, what an asshole hiding behind the Rights this country was founded on. While we're at it, lets just call everyone that died for these rights and freedoms an asshole too.

And citizenship is EXACTLY the difference here dude. Jesus
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so if I go hide in another country I can do whatever I want against the US with total impunity due to being a US citizen?
 
fly said:
Unless he renounced his citizenship? No.

Could it have been that hard for them to hold a trial for him in absentia and find him guilty of something (ZRH?)??? This is just a fucking slap in the face.
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In the most general sense:

8 USC 1481
Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions
(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States
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Also president has power to defend the United States by whatever means necessary. It's in a couple cases but the only one that I can remember is http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&case=/data2/circs/DC/995214a.html The Supreme Court has held a number of times that it will not rule on the necessity or applicability of military action except on US soil.

In my view this guy was waging war on the US, he got what was coming, citizen or not. Everyone seems to forget there is an actual real live war being fought against these people.
 
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Floptical said:
As I'm sure it's been said many times already he's been given a chance to turn himself in if he wanted the due process of the US. Given he didn't and his continued actions I can see how they would justify this or even it fitting the grounds of the DOS's rules for losing your citizenship. Yes they are things you can do that will make you lose your citizenship. It's not a 100% forever no matter what you do coverage. And honestly speaking this is no different than someone in the US having the old "Dead or Alive" put on them.
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1. He never lost his citizenship. Something they could/should have easily done to prevent the killing of a US citizen.

2. We can hold a trial without him here.
 
fly said:
No you fucking idiot, you have to stand trial for your crimes. Do you really not understand how this works?
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idiot? what if I simply don't turn myself in just like this guy and I orchestrate attacks against the US? now who's the idiot again?

--> fly :p
 
fly said:
1. He never lost his citizenship. Something they could/should have easily done to prevent the killing of a US citizen.

2. We can hold a trial without him here.
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On 2, you don't understand how trials in absentia work. Look up FRPC Rule 43. In federal court you have to be present at least at the beginning of the trial, or sigh a written waiver.
 
shamwow said:
idiot? what if I simply don't turn myself in just like this guy and I orchestrate attacks against the US? now who's the idiot again?

--> fly :p
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OK. I will spell this out word by word for you. I need you to read it twice, so that you understand.

1. A trial is held for the crimes he's committed.
2. He's found guilty of these crimes.
3. He's given a death sentence
4. He wears a Tomahawk missile for a hat.


1. A trial is held for the crimes he's committed.
2. He's found guilty of these crimes.
3. He's given a death sentence
4. He wears a Tomahawk missile for a hat.

Is that hard?
 
fly said:
That's great. Where is the paper trail of him losing his citizenship rights?
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I'm sure there's plenty on Youtube of him denouncing it and doing lord know what else. It doesn't have to be a formal trial and process to lose it. If I move it North Korea tomorrow and denounce the US and take up arms against it then my citizenship is gone.
 
ZRH said:
On 2, you don't understand how trials in absentia work. Look up FRPC Rule 43. In federal court you have to be present at least at the beginning of the trial, or sigh a written waiver.
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I asked for you earlier in this thread for clarification... :p

My understanding from a quick Google search was that under the US legal system, as long as you're given an opportunity to face your accusers (and decline), you can be tried in abesntia. No?
 
fly said:
OK. I will spell this out word by word for you. I need you to read it twice, so that you understand.

1. A trial is held for the crimes he's committed.
2. He's found guilty of these crimes.
3. He's given a death sentence
4. He wears a Tomahawk missile for a hat.


1. A trial is held for the crimes he's committed.
2. He's found guilty of these crimes.
3. He's given a death sentence
4. He wears a Tomahawk missile for a hat.

Is that hard?
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Ok so answer me this. A guy in Tampa is suspected of say killing a cop. Because of his actions and his associates he's considered armed and extremely dangerous. They find him and kill him. How is this any different. The guy died without a trial.
 
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