This isn't good . . .

bast_imret

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http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/02/10/nkorea.talks/index.html

(CNN) -- Citing what it calls U.S. threats to topple its political system, North Korea says it is dropping out of six-party nuclear talks and will "bolster its nuclear weapons arsenal," North Korea's official news agency KCNA reported.

Thursday's report was the first public claim by North Korea to actually possess nuclear weapons.

In the past, Pyongyang has claimed to have the ability and the right to produce them. U.S. officials said in April 2003 that North Korea claimed in private meetings to having at least one nuclear bomb.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called on North Korea to "reconsider their decision" to withdraw from the talks or risk further isolation, The Associated Press reported.

Rice said the North Koreans, by leaving negotiations, would be "deepening their isolation because everyone in the international community, and most especially North Korea's neighbors, have been very clear that there needs to be no nuclear weapons on the Korean peninsula in order to maintain stability in that region." (Full story)

In the statement reported by KCNA, the North Korean Foreign Ministry said: "We have shown utmost magnanimity and patience for the past four years since the first Bush administration swore in."

"We cannot spend another four years as we did in the past four years and there is no need for us to repeat what we did in those years."

The United States, the two Koreas, China, Japan and Russia have held three rounds of six-party talks since 2003, aimed at persuading the North to abandon its nuclear weapons development in return for economic and diplomatic rewards.

But no significant progress was reported in those talks, all hosted by China, North Korea's last remaining major ally.

A fourth round of talks scheduled for last September did not take place because North Korea refused to attend, citing what it called a "hostile" U.S. policy.

Thursday's statement from the North Korean foreign ministry said the country's nuclear weapons are "for self-defense to cope with the Bush administration's evermore undisguised policy to isolate and stifle the DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea)."

The communist state said it felt "compelled to suspend" participation in the six-nation talks "for an indefinite period."

"We have wanted the six-party talks but we are compelled to suspend our participation in the talks for an indefinite period till we have recognized that there is justification for us to attend the talks and there are ample conditions and atmosphere to expect positive results from the talks," the Foreign Ministry said.

"The U.S. disclosed its attempt to topple the political system in the DPRK at any cost, threatening it with a nuclear stick. This compels us to take a measure to bolster its nuclear weapons arsenal in order to protect the ideology, system, freedom and democracy chosen by the people in the DPRK.

'Axis of evil'
In his inaugural address on January 20, U.S. President George W. Bush did not mention North Korea by name. But he said U.S. efforts have lit "a fire in the minds of men.

"It warms those who feel its power, it burns those who fight its progress and one day this untamed fire of freedom will reach the darkest corners of our world," he said.

In his February 2 State of the Union address, Bush only briefly mentioned North Korea, saying Washington was "working closely with governments in Asia to convince North Korea to abandon its nuclear ambitions."

Bush's tone was in stark contrast to his speech three years ago, when he branded North Korea part of an "axis of evil" with Iran and Iraq. It raised hopes for a positive response from North Korea.

Earlier this month, Bush and South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun agreed to push for an early resumption of the six-nation talks.

But Pyongyang called Bush's call for the spread of freedom in his January 20 inaugural speech as a diabolical U.S. scheme to turn the world into "a sea of war flames."

"In his inauguration speech, Bush trumpeted that 'fire of freedom will reach dark corners of the world.' This is nothing but a plot to engulf the whole world in a sea of war flames and rule it by imposing a freedom based on power," North Korea's state-run Pyongyang Radio said early this month.

Despite pulling out of the six-nation nuclear talks and saying Thursday it will "bolster" its nuclear arsenal, the Foreign Ministry statement said North Korea's "principled stand to solve the issue through dialogue and negotiations and its ultimate goal to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula remain unchanged."

Sohn Jie-ae, CNN's Correspondent in the South Korean capital Seoul, said the possibility of North Korea returning to the talks could not be ruled out.

She said officials from the other countries involved would try to convince North Korea to reverse its decision.

:tinfoil:
 

Coqui

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theacoustician said:
Please tell me you're kidding

Yes and no.

I mean it seems that as soon as a country has nuclear capability, we have to prevent them from building anything. Yet as of 2001, we've had over 9600 weapons. Is a country automatically gonna attack the US just because it has nukes? Everybody knows the repercussions of launching nukes.

Just my opinion.
 

Ryokurin

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The sad thing is that we probably wont mess with them unless they actually use one as China will likely have their back. They WILL have to start the draft up again if that happens.
 

theacoustician

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Coqui said:
Yes and no.

I mean it seems that as soon as a country has nuclear capability, we have to prevent them from building anything. Yet as of 2001, we've had over 9600 weapons. Is a country automatically gonna attack the US just because it has nukes? Everybody knows the repercussions of launching nukes.

Just my opinion.
The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) is a treaty, opened for signature on July 1, 1968, restricting the possession of nuclear weapons. The vast majority of sovereign states (189) are parties to the treaty.

Only five states are permitted by the NPT to own nuclear weapons: the United States (signed 1968), United Kingdom (1968), France (1992), Soviet Union (1968; since replaced by Russia), and the People's Republic of China (1992). These were the only states possessing such weapons at that time, and are also the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. These 5 Nuclear Weapons States (NWS) agree not to transfer nuclear weapons technology to other states, and the non-NWS state parties agree not to seek to develop nuclear weapons.

The 5 NWS parties have made undertakings not to use their nuclear weapons against a non-NWS party except in response to a nuclear attack, or a conventional attack in alliance with a Nuclear Weapons State. However, these undertakings have not been incorporated formally into the treaty, and the exact details have varied over time. The United States, for instance, has indicated that it may use nuclear weapons in response to an attack with non-nuclear "weapons of mass destruction", such as biological or chemical weapons, since the US may not use either of these in retaliation. United Kingdom Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon has also explicitly invoked the possibility of the use of the country's nuclear weapons in response to a non-conventional attack by "rogue states".
and
In New York City, on May 11, 1995, more than 170 countries decided to extend the Treaty indefinitely and without conditions.

The parties to the treaty are:

Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Andorra
Angola
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
The Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Benin
Bhutan
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Brunei
Bulgaria
Burkina Faso
Burma
Burundi
Cambodia
Cameroon
Canada
Cape Verde
Central African Republic
Chad
Chile
People's Republic of China
Colombia
Comoros
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Republic of the Congo
Costa Rica
Côte d'Ivoire
Croatia
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Djibouti
Dominica
Dominican Republic
East Timor
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Fiji
Finland
France
Gabon
The Gambia
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Greece
Grenada
Guatemala
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Guyana
Haiti
Holy See (i.e. The Vatican)
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kiribati
North Korea
South Korea
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Latvia
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
Madagascar
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Malta
Marshall Islands
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mexico
Federated States of Micronesia
Moldova
Monaco
Mongolia
Morocco
Mozambique
Namibia
Nauru
Nepal
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Niger
Nigeria
Norway
Oman
Palau
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Russia
Rwanda
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Samoa
San Marino
São Tomé and Príncipe
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Serbia and Montenegro
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
Solomon Islands
Somalia
South Africa
Spain
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Suriname
Swaziland
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Togo
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Tuvalu
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
United States
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
Vanuatu
Venezuela
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe
So its not a matter of "the big bad US won't let anyone else have toys", its world mandate states that they don't want anyone else to have nuclear weapons and authorizes the 5 countries to hold them. The world wants at least a few powerful, non-aligned countries to have the weapons so that they can be the "world judges". That way, when the Security Council talks, other nations listen.
 

Coqui

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theacoustician said:
and


So its not a matter of "the big bad US won't let anyone else have toys", its world mandate states that they don't want anyone else to have nuclear weapons and authorizes the 5 countries to hold them. The world wants at least a few powerful, non-aligned countries to have the weapons so that they can be the "world judges". That way, when the Security Council talks, other nations listen.

I stand corrected then.
 

simple

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Kim Jong is completely unpredictable, but his neighbors may reign him in.

... japan has said that if North Korea goes nuclear, they will too, in self defense. China goes into meltdown at the thought of a nuclear Japan. They remember WWII.

China has complete control of North Korea if they chose to use it. If China closes the border, The lights go off in North Korea, the vehicles stop moving, and everyone starves to death within a few weeks.

I think China likes to see the West squirm as long as possible, but in the end, they will squash Kim one way or the other.
 
S

smileynev

Guest
Coqui said:
Yes and no.

I mean it seems that as soon as a country has nuclear capability, we have to prevent them from building anything. Yet as of 2001, we've had over 9600 weapons. Is a country automatically gonna attack the US just because it has nukes? Everybody knows the repercussions of launching nukes.

Just my opinion.
Not batshit wacko dictators who would rather blow everything to hell then step down from running their batshit wacko countries.
 
S

smileynev

Guest
elpmis said:
Kim Jong is completely unpredictable, but his neighbors may reign him in.

... japan has said that if North Korea goes nuclear, they will too, in self defense. China goes into meltdown at the thought of a nuclear Japan. They remember WWII.

China has complete control of North Korea if they chose to use it. If China closes the border, The lights go off in North Korea, the vehicles stop moving, and everyone starves to death within a few weeks.

I think China likes to see the West squirm as long as possible, but in the end, they will squash Kim one way or the other.
I sure hope so. I like China. They're big and mean, but not like the USSR was. Because they're all short.
 

Dory

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theacoustician said:
and


So its not a matter of "the big bad US won't let anyone else have toys", its world mandate states that they don't want anyone else to have nuclear weapons and authorizes the 5 countries to hold them. The world wants at least a few powerful, non-aligned countries to have the weapons so that they can be the "world judges". That way, when the Security Council talks, other nations listen.
Pretty hypocrtical and ironic considering who carried out Horoshimi. :rolleyes:

Soldier: Poi ta? [Kim turns to face him] Pa chin! Peya Hans Brix poge tode ka. ["Sir, Hans Blix is here from the United Nations"]
Kim: Hans Brix? Aww no! Oh, herro. great to see you again, Hans.
Hans Blix: Mr. Il, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your palace today, and your guards won't let me in to certain areas.
Kim: Hans Hans Hans, we've been through this a dozen times! I don't have any weapons of mass destruction, okay Hans?
Blix: Then let me look around so I can ease the UN's collective mind.
Kim: Hans you're breakin' my balls here, Hans, you're breakin' my balls!
Blix: I'm sorry, but the UN must be firm with you! Let' me see your whole palace, or else!
Kim: Or erse, what?
Blix: Or else we will be very, very angry with you, and we will write you a letter telling you how angry wie are.
Kim: Okay, I'rr show you, Hans. You ready? Stand a rittre to your reft. [Blix steps to his left] A rittre more. [Blix steps to his left again, landing on a wooden circle] Good. [pulls back on an ornament that turned out to be a lever. The circle drops away under Blix and he goes down into an abyss screaming. He comes up on the other side of the aquarium window, rising up in the water] There you go, Hans Brix! How do you rike that, you fucking cocksucker?! [a shark has found Blix and tears into him] Do you have any idea how fucking busy I am, Hans Brix?! Werr fuck you! You want inspections?! Werr inspect that, you buttfucking piece of shit!! [Blix's head has come off his body] What? Do you think I'm some petty arms dearer? I'm pranning the attack! Congraturations, Team America! You have stopped nothing!
 

Dory

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smileynev said:
Not batshit wacko dictators who would rather blow everything to hell then step down from running their batshit wacko countries.
You know some would considering your dumbfuck president a helluva lot worse than some dictators.