Casmo hits on something that isn't often talked about. Republican economic policy was drastically different after Nixon, at the prodding of monetarists like Milton Friendman; they abandoned what was then considered fiscal conservatism. Ara is right that earlier conservatives understood that cutting taxes is roughly the equivalent to increasing spending. There's a logical disconnect in the Republican party that has survived since 1980, because they've swallowed monetarist kool-aid. It's a shame, imo.
WTF WTF did I just watch?!! The Tea Party are dumbf*ks!!
- Thread starter Applesauce
- Start date
Casmo hits on something that isn't often talked about. Republican economic policy was drastically different after Nixon, at the prodding of monetarists like Milton Friendman; they abandoned what was then considered fiscal conservatism. Ara is right that earlier conservatives understood that cutting taxes is roughly the equivalent to increasing spending. There's a logical disconnect in the Republican party that has survived since 1980, because they've swallowed monetarist kool-aid. It's a shame, imo.
the economy tanked under bush's watch. yes or no
bush removed our rights by allowing wiretapping without a warrant, starting the department of homeland security and implementing computer systems like carnivore to spy on americans. yes or no
again, the clunker thing is your opinion, dummy. show me proof or you lose. the effects of economic decisions currently made wont be felt or properly analyzed for years
eileenbunny
Druish Princess
the economy tanked under bush's watch. yes or no
bush removed our rights by allowing wiretapping without a warrant, starting the department of homeland security and implementing computer systems like carnivore to spy on americans. yes or no
again, the clunker thing is your opinion, dummy. show me proof or you lose. the effects of economic decisions currently made wont be felt or properly analyzed for years
To be fair, I don't think the economy tanking was all President Bush Jr's fault. I think we have his predecessors to thank for that. Regulations on wall street didn't end under President Bush Jr.'s time in office. Handing out loans to anyone who asked didn't happen under President Bush's time in office either. Benefits for actual needy people didn't end under President Bush Jr's presidency either. There are so many factors involved in what has happened and there are so many people to blame and there is such a history to analyze, it is really difficult to point the finger at any one person.
President Bush Jr isn't a smart man, and he's also not an eloquent man, and I also don't think he's a good man (opinion I am aware), but I don't think he's the devil and I don't think he's responsible for everything. Just look at what happened during his time. Every 2 years something catastrophic effected the choices he had to make in major ways. I think it would be hard for anyone to know what to do in the face of a major attack on American soil, or the near total destruction of a major US city, or the collapse of our economy. In fact, as far as I am aware, nobody yet has come up with better suggestions than any of the solutions we are trying. I don't know what to do.
I think President Obama is just trying things based on the best guesses of his advisers and his own knowledge. I recognize he's looking out for his own ass as well, all politicians are doing that. However, I am quite sure that if anyone came up with some solution for how to bring about peace, solve our energy problems, solve our economic problems, feed the world, or any of the other problems we are facing they'd be all ears. There's nothing like saving the world to secure re-election.
if you think the POTUS is solely responsible for the economic woes, you are dreamingthe economy tanked under bush's watch. yes or no
the economy got worse under obama's watch. yes or no
nobush removed our rights by allowing wiretapping without a warrant, starting the department of homeland security and implementing computer systems like carnivore to spy on americans. yes or no
homesec didn't take any rights away and you need to understand what the deal was with the fisa courts before you spout off obama extended the warrantless wiretaps and increased funding the echelon. yes or no
It's not an opinion. It's a fucking fact that working vehicles were destroyed.again, the clunker thing is your opinion, dummy. show me proof or you lose. the effects of economic decisions currently made wont be felt or properly analyzed for years
you are just full of opinions. just like tea partiers.
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you drank the koolaid /kevlarthe economy tanked under bush's watch. yes or no
bush removed our rights by allowing wiretapping without a warrant, starting the department of homeland security and implementing computer systems like carnivore to spy on americans. yes or no
again, the clunker thing is your opinion, dummy. show me proof or you lose. the effects of economic decisions currently made wont be felt or properly analyzed for years
As usual Chris, you have your facts wrong. Carnivore was started under the Clinton-Gore administration.
You'll be a Karl Marx rally looooooooooooooooooooooooooong before I'll come near a KKK rally.
Amstel
The Hoarse Whisperer
again, the clunker thing is your opinion, dummy. show me proof or you lose. the effects of economic decisions currently made wont be felt or properly analyzed for years
idk about years. . . one year later. . .
All the cash for clunkers did was steal auto sales from future months. It was nothing more than a short term "paycheck advance" scheme from the gov't.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/01/news/companies/august_auto_sales/
**By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.comSeptember 1, 2010: 5:14 PM ET
***NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The nation's top automakers reported disappointing sales Wednesday, resulting in the worst August for industrywide auto sales in 27 years.
According to sales tracker Autodata, U.S. new vehicle sales fell just short of 1 million vehicles, a drop of 21% from a year ago, which included Cash for Clunkers. That federal program created a sugar rush of sales by dangling an incentive of up to $4,500 in cash for buyers who traded in older gas guzzlers for more efficient models.***
According to sales tracker Autodata, U.S. new vehicle sales fell just short of 1 million vehicles, a drop of 21% from a year ago, which included Cash for Clunkers. That federal program created a sugar rush of sales by dangling an incentive of up to $4,500 in cash for buyers who traded in older gas guzzlers for more efficient models.***
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you also have to factor how stingy the banks are being with loans, the massive unemployment and the general belt tightening by those who do have jobs and money. all are considerable factors
Amstel
The Hoarse Whisperer
. . . which apparently didn't come into play in August last year due to the. . . . cash for clunkers program.
in a rising unemployment scenario, people conserve their resources.
The buyers had incentive to buy during the program. The buyers were people with good credit, that could get financing or had the cash already, that were going to buy a car in the near future anyway - REGARDLESS OF INCENTIVE. I spoke with one auto sales manager who said that their average buyer had an average credit score of 745. That's not everyday Americans.
who's to say the numbers wouldn't have been even lower last year without the incentive vs. this year?
Amstel
The Hoarse Whisperer
without the incentive, they would have been lower last year, and higher this year.
If you eat tomorrows lunch today, you're full today. but your fucked tomorrow at lunchtime.
The exact same thing happened with mortgage applications when they took away the credit.
THe gov't creates a temporary marketplace with incentives.
If you eat tomorrows lunch today, you're full today. but your fucked tomorrow at lunchtime.
The exact same thing happened with mortgage applications when they took away the credit.
**Mortgage Applications Drop to Lowest Volume in 13 Years
By Phil Tortora on June 9, 2010
The Mortgage Bankers Association reported this morning in its Weekly Mortgage Applications Survey that the volume of mortgage applications filed in the United States last week slipped 12.2 percent from the previous week. It was the fifth-straight week that applications fell, and was the lowest volume level since February 1997.
This week’s results include an adjustment to account for the Memorial Day holiday. On an unadjusted basis, the Index decreased 21.1 percent compared with the previous week.
The decline of mortgage applications in the past month reinforces the notion that the first-time home buyer tax credit and repeat home buyer tax credit forced buyers to scramble before the April 30 expiration dates, subsequently depleting future sales as people rushed to take advantage of the rebates.
“Purchase applications are now 35 percent below their level of four weeks ago, as homebuyers have not yet returned to the market following the expiration of the homebuyer tax credit at the end of April,” Michael Fratantoni, MBA’s vice president of research and economics, said in a statement.**
By Phil Tortora on June 9, 2010
The Mortgage Bankers Association reported this morning in its Weekly Mortgage Applications Survey that the volume of mortgage applications filed in the United States last week slipped 12.2 percent from the previous week. It was the fifth-straight week that applications fell, and was the lowest volume level since February 1997.
This week’s results include an adjustment to account for the Memorial Day holiday. On an unadjusted basis, the Index decreased 21.1 percent compared with the previous week.
The decline of mortgage applications in the past month reinforces the notion that the first-time home buyer tax credit and repeat home buyer tax credit forced buyers to scramble before the April 30 expiration dates, subsequently depleting future sales as people rushed to take advantage of the rebates.
“Purchase applications are now 35 percent below their level of four weeks ago, as homebuyers have not yet returned to the market following the expiration of the homebuyer tax credit at the end of April,” Michael Fratantoni, MBA’s vice president of research and economics, said in a statement.**
THe gov't creates a temporary marketplace with incentives.
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no one knows for certain if the numbers would have been just as abysmal both years without the incentive. it's total speculation