Why voting for the Libertarian Party isn't throwing away your vote...
- Thread starter fly
- Start date
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
David Cameron????
Some middle class ponce who is so tough on everything that needs to be done. What a poof that guy is. I don't like either labour or conservative, but whichever one wins in a fight is obviously better. Gordon Brown would beat the crap out of Cameron. Therefore Brown > Cameron.
Some middle class ponce who is so tough on everything that needs to be done. What a poof that guy is. I don't like either labour or conservative, but whichever one wins in a fight is obviously better. Gordon Brown would beat the crap out of Cameron. Therefore Brown > Cameron.
Brown can't even play rugby without ruining himself.
Dave gets too much bad press from the people who realize he is fit to govern, so much so they don't want to give him a chance.
Labour's over. Brown has nothing but contempt for the people of the UK and for anyone trying to better themselves. You only have to look at MTAS and Health investment to see just how much respect he has for medical professions, and how he felt that this demographic could be exploited.
To quote Cameron, he's an analogue politician for a digital age - and we'll all be glad to see the back of him.
Dave gets too much bad press from the people who realize he is fit to govern, so much so they don't want to give him a chance.
Labour's over. Brown has nothing but contempt for the people of the UK and for anyone trying to better themselves. You only have to look at MTAS and Health investment to see just how much respect he has for medical professions, and how he felt that this demographic could be exploited.
To quote Cameron, he's an analogue politician for a digital age - and we'll all be glad to see the back of him.
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
It's not that labour is over. We vote a party in, after 10 years they get bored and picked the other one for another 10 years, etc etc ad nauseum. It's nothing to do with personality or policies, it's just cyclical idiocy. I have far much more contempt for the conservatives with their upper class policies aimed at exploiting the lower classes. Atleast labour used to stand for something with an iota of fairness. The tories will never live Thatcher down, and that's why if I had to choose I'd go for Gordon everytime, rather than some young pussy who's wet behind the ears.
Upper class policies exploiting the lower classes? Thatcher?
She pretty much enfranchised every owner of a council house in the UK, allowing them to become home owners. The supply of power was uninterrupted. University tuition was covered by grants. Historically the Conservative party gave women the right to vote, gave all people the right to vote, freed up credit and mortgage markets etc. All of this isn't Upper class policy.
Both parties have a stagnation period. Thatcher -> Stagnation of policy in Major, Brown -> stagnation of policy in Blair. In the US, 8 years of Reagan than stagnation of policy in George HW Bush.
It's no small feat that under Thatcher the UK working class shrank and the middle class grew astronomically, but of course proxy opinions from the utopian few who's parents could afford to send them to Oxbridge still churn out the same old anti-Thatcherite venom about working class Britain that they never understood either.
From someone who couldn't have studied Med before Thatcher, from someone who couldn't have done his A-Levels before Thatcher, from someone who had Thatcher to thank that the electric stayed on, people were buried, bins were collected etc. etc. I think this person rather likes these "Upper class policies" aimed at exploiting the middle and lower classes.
She pretty much enfranchised every owner of a council house in the UK, allowing them to become home owners. The supply of power was uninterrupted. University tuition was covered by grants. Historically the Conservative party gave women the right to vote, gave all people the right to vote, freed up credit and mortgage markets etc. All of this isn't Upper class policy.
Both parties have a stagnation period. Thatcher -> Stagnation of policy in Major, Brown -> stagnation of policy in Blair. In the US, 8 years of Reagan than stagnation of policy in George HW Bush.
It's no small feat that under Thatcher the UK working class shrank and the middle class grew astronomically, but of course proxy opinions from the utopian few who's parents could afford to send them to Oxbridge still churn out the same old anti-Thatcherite venom about working class Britain that they never understood either.
From someone who couldn't have studied Med before Thatcher, from someone who couldn't have done his A-Levels before Thatcher, from someone who had Thatcher to thank that the electric stayed on, people were buried, bins were collected etc. etc. I think this person rather likes these "Upper class policies" aimed at exploiting the middle and lower classes.
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
And speaking from someone who never could or would afford to go to Oxbridge, even if I'm bright enough. And also from the same person who could never have studied A Levels WITHOUT Blair policies I'd say that anything that directly benefits me when I'm in need is a result of Labour policies aimed at not ignoring those who don't have money to throw away.
And how was unemplyoment under Thatcher anyway? Cos I'm pretty sure most of the area where I live (the Midlands) is still feeling the aftershocks of her drastic solutions, and in fact there still exists long term employment 20 years later
And how was unemplyoment under Thatcher anyway? Cos I'm pretty sure most of the area where I live (the Midlands) is still feeling the aftershocks of her drastic solutions, and in fact there still exists long term employment 20 years later
It's true Thatcher descimated the North and the working class that built Britain during the Industrial Revolution, but the UK could ill-afford propping up of ailing industry constantly. Like I said, until the LABOUR government had to go cap in hand to the world bank for a loan, we couldn't even afford to keep the power on in some regions in the 1970s. All this was due to subsidising increasingly redundant industry which had a penchant for fly pickets. What benefit did strikes do other than benefit the workers in that sector? Was that for the greater good?
Blair's education reforms were to make subjects like "Travel and Tourism" legit. I had a conversation with a girl who told me she had 5 A Levels. General Studies, Travel and Tourism, Drama, Civics [WHAT?!] and Psychology. What use is this in the Modern Age? She went on to do a pretty prestigious course, then dropped out when she couldn't manage anything on it. So there you have in a nutshell some Labour reforms. Make it DEAD EASY to go to University but drop out when you can't fathom the course. But here, it makes the % of School Leavers going onto further education look rosey to the G7. Blair's reforms were watered down Thatcherite at best, to quote Mandelson at the time "we're all Thatchers children now". I can remember the headlines of "Is Tony a Tory?" as well.
Unemployment under Thatcher skyrocketted initially on her implentation of monetarist policy and vastly improved to it's best level towards the end of her tenure. The UK became a power again, could afford it's beloved NHS and people could go to University no matter what they're background.
It's all about spin nowadays, and political careerists. I have a great respect for Thatcher and her reforms, which is uncommon for an Irish Catholic. Her and I have similar backgrounds of grammar school and focus, albeit I'm not Methodist. When Thatcher's reforms of the 1980's are looked at without interpretation by some shitty university humanities department, it's plain to see just how much she benefitted the working class all over the UK, and from this some people got super rich. It's these super rich that Labour like to use as a stick with which to beat the conservatives, despite the Labour party doing it's best to 'woo' tax exiles back to the UK in 1997 with a promise of waived, unpaid income tax.
Blair's education reforms were to make subjects like "Travel and Tourism" legit. I had a conversation with a girl who told me she had 5 A Levels. General Studies, Travel and Tourism, Drama, Civics [WHAT?!] and Psychology. What use is this in the Modern Age? She went on to do a pretty prestigious course, then dropped out when she couldn't manage anything on it. So there you have in a nutshell some Labour reforms. Make it DEAD EASY to go to University but drop out when you can't fathom the course. But here, it makes the % of School Leavers going onto further education look rosey to the G7. Blair's reforms were watered down Thatcherite at best, to quote Mandelson at the time "we're all Thatchers children now". I can remember the headlines of "Is Tony a Tory?" as well.
Unemployment under Thatcher skyrocketted initially on her implentation of monetarist policy and vastly improved to it's best level towards the end of her tenure. The UK became a power again, could afford it's beloved NHS and people could go to University no matter what they're background.
It's all about spin nowadays, and political careerists. I have a great respect for Thatcher and her reforms, which is uncommon for an Irish Catholic. Her and I have similar backgrounds of grammar school and focus, albeit I'm not Methodist. When Thatcher's reforms of the 1980's are looked at without interpretation by some shitty university humanities department, it's plain to see just how much she benefitted the working class all over the UK, and from this some people got super rich. It's these super rich that Labour like to use as a stick with which to beat the conservatives, despite the Labour party doing it's best to 'woo' tax exiles back to the UK in 1997 with a promise of waived, unpaid income tax.
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
People don't get into University with any background. I wouldn't get into any of my first choice Uni's even if I applied. I chose not to do A Levels at the private school I attended, I went to a state sixth form. People with A Levels at prestigious schools > people with the same grades, but not a prestigious school. But that's just semantics.
Thtacher benefitted companies and the well off. A lot of villages, including the one I was born in are still desolate places as a direct result of her policies. It's a shame the IRA just missed her in Brighton if you ask me.
Thtacher benefitted companies and the well off. A lot of villages, including the one I was born in are still desolate places as a direct result of her policies. It's a shame the IRA just missed her in Brighton if you ask me.
A Levels are only a pre-requisate that you are able to cope with the workload at University and should not be viewed as some sort of barrier to the working class. A good student will do well anywhere, not just in a good school. Sometimes it helps, but I'm not at Oxbridge as you can tell. My first choice Univ was down the road.
There's no figures to show that specific choices are preferred. If anything it's probably discrimination towards state schools in order to make the % look nicer than it is. Fact is, most private schools force you into extra-ciricular activities which Universities love. Most state school students don't do these. My friends who did go to Oxford, who had perhaps the same grades as me got in because they had huge, padded CV's of sports, awards, participation etc. that I didn't have.
Thatcher benefitted companies and the well off and those were two groups that were not especially big in the 1980s UK. What then was selling on council houses to occupants for nominal fees? I don't see that as a gain of equity for the council house tenant. At the height of the housing boom houses that cost 4000 GBP to buy were selling for 190k in regions here.
If you seek to argue with Thatcher about her descimation of Industry in the UK, then you should also in theory disagree with Fair Trade products as this cons specific regions into focusing on one industry which can be removed when it becomes unprofitable - Then it becomes a "desolate place". BUUUut the chattering classes have their Fair Trade products with the smiling black faces on the front, serving it smugly at coffee mornings while yammering on about Thatcher and THAT CAMERON.
There's no figures to show that specific choices are preferred. If anything it's probably discrimination towards state schools in order to make the % look nicer than it is. Fact is, most private schools force you into extra-ciricular activities which Universities love. Most state school students don't do these. My friends who did go to Oxford, who had perhaps the same grades as me got in because they had huge, padded CV's of sports, awards, participation etc. that I didn't have.
Thatcher benefitted companies and the well off and those were two groups that were not especially big in the 1980s UK. What then was selling on council houses to occupants for nominal fees? I don't see that as a gain of equity for the council house tenant. At the height of the housing boom houses that cost 4000 GBP to buy were selling for 190k in regions here.
If you seek to argue with Thatcher about her descimation of Industry in the UK, then you should also in theory disagree with Fair Trade products as this cons specific regions into focusing on one industry which can be removed when it becomes unprofitable - Then it becomes a "desolate place". BUUUut the chattering classes have their Fair Trade products with the smiling black faces on the front, serving it smugly at coffee mornings while yammering on about Thatcher and THAT CAMERON.
Last edited:
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
Selling on the council houses as a right to buy scheme? That's causing huge problems now, as I say, 20 years later. The woman ruined many undercurrents of this country for decades.
It's causing "problems" because house prices are overinflated and first-time buyers can't afford them. This will augment itself over the course of the next few years.
Personally, I couldn't give a fuck about owning a house. But when you're a 23 year old single mum in Accrington and you bought your council house in 1987 for 4k GBP, then sold it on for 160k GBP in 2002, that sounds like a pretty good profit for nominal investment for a product they were already using.
Personally, I couldn't give a fuck about owning a house. But when you're a 23 year old single mum in Accrington and you bought your council house in 1987 for 4k GBP, then sold it on for 160k GBP in 2002, that sounds like a pretty good profit for nominal investment for a product they were already using.
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
Most reasonably sized houses were <20k in 1987 anyway. My dad brought his first houes for 7k back in the day.
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
Anyway, lets quit with the politics. Every day I argue politics, and it's kind of boring me after years of it. Lets just agree that the whole government system sucks, Thatcher sucks balls, just as much as Cameron, and Gordon Brown is s posh Scot who breathes like Darth Vadar. Ever noticed that?
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
The only interest I take in American Politics is watching The Daily Show every night. That's good politics.
Lines of Credit were also extended to EARNERS for the first time under Thatcher, not just people with massive savings.
Spending future earnings isn't a good thing, but for those 100,000's of people who paid for a mortgage which then returned a fantastic investment, it was well worth it.
Please don't bandwagon hop and say that Thatcher extension of credit AMOUNTED TO THE GLOBAL ECONOMIC FLIP FLOP CREDIT CRUNCH BRITISH GAS BLAH BLAH crap going on today. If this were the case, then we can blame Lloyd George for building more houses in the UK as well as successive prime ministers who have funded the building of new council homes.
We'll not get into this present crises, but that seems to be the default up-to-date argument of the proxy-Thatcher hater.
Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski
Clam whisperer
I couldn't really care less about the present 'crisis'. I don't own a home, don't want own a home for the forseeable future. I buy cheap food, so that hasn't affected me. I don't drive so the petrol price hasn't affected me. I work in the NHS, and they're not going to fire me anytime soon.From my point of view it's a good thing because interest rates are up, which means my money which I save in a good bank just generates a little bit extra.
Yay for economic downturn!
Yay for economic downturn!