Tony Snow's comments on Bush

fly said:
He fits in perfectly with the Bush administraion, no doubt. However, his pompous, elitest attitude and desire to leave his mark on war forever have cost this country money, lives, and credit with the world. Again, in parallel with Bush, he had a grand idea that might have been amazing, instead it turned into a total clusterfuck. And no one will admit it.

His verbage and total lack of emotion is kinda funny, if you don't think about the people dying for it.
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Im trying to figure out if you are saying he was pushing for a war because that was more Bush/Cheney IMO. Also does everyone forget about Afghanistan? We went, we saw, we conquered. The entire country was fucked within one week mostly because of his strategy. Yes we are still occupying it, but hell we are still occupying Germany from WW2.

The (as I've said before) problem in Iraq is that we arent letting the military run like they can. We're essentially playing down our strengths to be 'sporting' with the insurgents because no one wants to piss off the mass media. Now I dont know if that is a policy the DoD came up with or something they were ordered to do but based on his comments/past performances it doesnt seem to be his style.

Looking at the alternatives, would you really want William Cohen running a multifront war?
 
FlamingGlory said:
Im trying to figure out if you are saying he was pushing for a war because that was more Bush/Cheney IMO. Also does everyone forget about Afghanistan? We went, we saw, we conquered. The entire country was fucked within one week mostly because of his strategy. Yes we are still occupying it, but hell we are still occupying Germany from WW2.
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Not pushing for the war, but he tried to "revolutionize" modern warfare. He started the idea of a small, agile, rolling invasion. It failed miserably and continues to. We can succeed in Iraq, but it takes a shitload more manpower than we currently have over there.

The (as I've said before) problem in Iraq is that we arent letting the military run like they can. We're essentially playing down our strengths to be 'sporting' with the insurgents because no one wants to piss off the mass media. Now I dont know if that is a policy the DoD came up with or something they were ordered to do but based on his comments/past performances it doesnt seem to be his style.

Looking at the alternatives, would you really want William Cohen running a multifront war?
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And that's pretty much what I just said, except I think you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction. Its Rummy's idea...
 
fly said:
Not pushing for the war, but he tried to "revolutionize" modern warfare. He started the idea of a small, agile, rolling invasion. It failed miserably and continues to. We can succeed in Iraq, but it takes a shitload more manpower than we currently have over there.



And that's pretty much what I just said, except I think you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction. Its Rummy's idea...
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Points. He is not a friend of Big Military, but neither have any of the past SoDs for the last 20 years.
 
b_sinning said:
Rummy needs to go. Even tons of Generals are saying that now.
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AF Generals (at least thats what I remembered from the NY Times) who waited until they got their retirement before worrying about the little guy. Not putting down their concerns but something to think about.
 
b_sinning said:
Rummy needs to go. Even tons of Generals are saying that now.
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Since when did 6 equal tons? Even if they all weighed in at 300 lbs it would be under one ton.

FlamingGlory said:
AF Generals (at least thats what I remembered from the NY Times) who waited until they got their retirement before worrying about the little guy. Not putting down their concerns but something to think about.
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Yes, it would have held a bit more salt if this was done during duty in the face of a court martial.
 
shawndavid said:
Yes, it would have held a bit more salt if this was done during duty in the face of a court martial.
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Yeah, except its illegal and why would someone say it only to be dismissed and go to jail? Hell, iirc, there was one general who said something *slighty* negative and they took away a fucking star before forcing him to retire. Now thats hardball and THATS why no one says anything till retirement.
 
fly said:
Yeah, except its illegal and why would someone say it only to be dismissed and go to jail? Hell, iirc, there was one general who said something *slighty* negative and they took away a fucking star before forcing him to retire. Now thats hardball and THATS why no one says anything till retirement.
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Exactly. I tend to believe the 6 different Generals that Rummy isn't the best person for the job and that's one reason Iraq is heading in the wrong direction for us. We should not be trying to occupy Iraq this long. Let them start thier own process of self governing.
 
fly said:
Yeah, except its illegal and why would someone say it only to be dismissed and go to jail? Hell, iirc, there was one general who said something *slighty* negative and they took away a fucking star before forcing him to retire. Now thats hardball and THATS why no one says anything till retirement.
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Not illegal just not wise. That's how the OC works, but it wouldve carried a lot more weight if they had done it while on AD.
 
fly said:
Yeah, except its illegal and why would someone say it only to be dismissed and go to jail? Hell, iirc, there was one general who said something *slighty* negative and they took away a fucking star before forcing him to retire. Now thats hardball and THATS why no one says anything till retirement.
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If they truly believed in what they are saying now then they should haved done what General Billy Mitchel did after WWI. No they care more fore their retirement pay then their "beliefs". :rolleyes:
 
FlamingGlory said:
Not illegal just not wise. That's how the OC works, but it wouldve carried a lot more weight if they had done it while on AD.
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Umm no, its illegal. They can be thrown out of the military and possibly court marshalled.
 
fly said:
Umm no, its illegal. They can be thrown out of the military and possibly court marshalled.
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Emailed a family member in the military about this (yes in the last 5 hours), criticism is at best a 'bad mark' for a flag officers, probably wouldnt get promoted and be forced to retire. Enlisted peeps would probably get an Article 15.

ETA: Insubordination charge possible but hasnt happened in 50 years.
 
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FlamingGlory said:
Emailed a family member in the military about this (yes in the last 5 hours), criticism is at best a 'bad mark' for a flag officers, probably wouldnt get promoted and be forced to retire. Enlisted peeps would probably get an Article 15.

ETA: Insubordination charge possible but hasnt happened in 50 years.
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I heard about it on NPR last week, so I know its true. :p
 
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