theac or another sound person

shawndavid

Are you wanting making fuck berserker?
I just went to plug in and do sound check with the new sub at our venue for tomorrow night. I have to run it through the outs on my "DJ" mixer, which is a Vestax PCV275. I have both RCA outs and 1/4" outs, but no dedicated sub out. I don't think it matters since the sub is both powered and has its own crossover. The sub has both XLR ins and a single 1/4" in. I used a stereo 1/4 to 1/4 cable but obviously only used one half of it. I tried both the L and R outs to see if one was a mono channel, but I get the same very weak output from each.

I called two places for help. The guy at Guitar Center told me I'd be better off getting a double male 1/4 to single XLR male as I'm only using half the signal the way I had it. I also called Sam Ash and the guy there told me it didn't matter. The link to check out the sub is below. I told the owner I'd be back early tomorrow to resolve this. Can you see the problem and/or the solution?

Sub info:

http://www.godirectmusic.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=29006
JBL Eon 518S 18" Self-Powered Subwoofer

Description:
The EON518S is an 18-inch, direct radiating, high performance powered compact subwoofer system. Designed to extend low frequency performance of any EON system. It also offers the convenience of an integrated crossover and stereo loop-thru capability. The EON518S is comprised of a 460 mm (18") Differential Drive® woofer driven by a 500 watt Class-D digital amplifier.

Features:
# 500 watt High-Performance Powered Subwoofer System
# True portability weighing only 29.5 kg (65 lb)
# Compact enclosure
# Designed handles with comfort rubber grips for easy transport
# 18" Differential Drive® low-frequency driver with neodymium magnet for low-distortion and light weight
# Efficient Class-D digital amplifier technology
# Stereo balanced loop-through outputs
# Integrated and switchable High Pass Filter on loop-through outputs
# Easy “daisy-chain” connections for extending the system
# Polarity reverse selector
# Integrated 36 mm pole mount socket for sub/satellite applications
# Rugged DuraFlex™ finish

# Specifications: System Power Rating : 500 W continuous
1000 W peak
# Frequency Range (-10 dB) : 36 Hz - 130 Hz
# Dimensions (H x W x D) : 617 mm x 569 mm x 652 mm
(24.3 in x 22.4 in x 25.7 in)
# Frequency Response (±3 dB) : 42 Hz - 100 Hz
# Maximum SPL : 129 dB
# Crossover Frequency : 120 Hz (HPF selectable on outputs)
 
I just went to plug in and do sound check with the new sub at our venue for tomorrow night. I have to run it through the outs on my "DJ" mixer, which is a Vestax PCV275. I have both RCA outs and 1/4" outs, but no dedicated sub out. I don't think it matters since the sub is both powered and has its own crossover. The sub has both XLR ins and a single 1/4" in. I used a stereo 1/4 to 1/4 cable but obviously only used one half of it. I tried both the L and R outs to see if one was a mono channel, but I get the same very weak output from each.

I called two places for help. The guy at Guitar Center told me I'd be better off getting a double male 1/4 to single XLR male as I'm only using half the signal the way I had it. I also called Sam Ash and the guy there told me it didn't matter. The link to check out the sub is below. I told the owner I'd be back early tomorrow to resolve this. Can you see the problem and/or the solution?

Sub info:

http://www.godirectmusic.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=29006
JBL Eon 518S 18" Self-Powered Subwoofer

Description:
The EON518S is an 18-inch, direct radiating, high performance powered compact subwoofer system. Designed to extend low frequency performance of any EON system. It also offers the convenience of an integrated crossover and stereo loop-thru capability. The EON518S is comprised of a 460 mm (18") Differential Drive® woofer driven by a 500 watt Class-D digital amplifier.

Features:
# 500 watt High-Performance Powered Subwoofer System
# True portability weighing only 29.5 kg (65 lb)
# Compact enclosure
# Designed handles with comfort rubber grips for easy transport
# 18" Differential Drive® low-frequency driver with neodymium magnet for low-distortion and light weight
# Efficient Class-D digital amplifier technology
# Stereo balanced loop-through outputs
# Integrated and switchable High Pass Filter on loop-through outputs
# Easy “daisy-chain” connections for extending the system
# Polarity reverse selector
# Integrated 36 mm pole mount socket for sub/satellite applications
# Rugged DuraFlex™ finish

# Specifications: System Power Rating : 500 W continuous
1000 W peak
# Frequency Range (-10 dB) : 36 Hz - 130 Hz
# Dimensions (H x W x D) : 617 mm x 569 mm x 652 mm
(24.3 in x 22.4 in x 25.7 in)
# Frequency Response (±3 dB) : 42 Hz - 100 Hz
# Maximum SPL : 129 dB
# Crossover Frequency : 120 Hz (HPF selectable on outputs)
Since the sub has its own built in class D, make sure you have the level, crossover, and polarity set correctly on the sub first.

Depending on the contacts inside the jack, the stereo 1/4" might be fucking you up. It could be grounding part of the signal because its expecting a larger contact area on the plug than what's available on the stereo 1/4". You'll probably need to bite the bullet and run to Rat Shack or something and get a proper stereo -> mono.

In the future, you should look to making all your gear XLR. There's less chance that you'll have a bad connection, the plug pushed in part way, or some dillhole tripping on a cable and yanking the plug out.
 
Since the sub has its own built in class D, make sure you have the level, crossover, and polarity set correctly on the sub first.

Depending on the contacts inside the jack, the stereo 1/4" might be fucking you up. It could be grounding part of the signal because its expecting a larger contact area on the plug than what's available on the stereo 1/4". You'll probably need to bite the bullet and run to Rat Shack or something and get a proper stereo -> mono.

In the future, you should look to making all your gear XLR. There's less chance that you'll have a bad connection, the plug pushed in part way, or some dillhole tripping on a cable and yanking the plug out.

How do I correctly set the sub? A pic of the back panel is below.

So I should go double stereo 1/4 to single mono 1/4? Or double 1/4 to male mono XLR?

Thank you very much for your help.

jbl-eon518s_back.jpg
 
How do I correctly set the sub? A pic of the back panel is below.

So I should go double stereo 1/4 to single mono 1/4? Or double 1/4 to male mono XLR?

Thank you very much for your help.

jbl-eon518s_back.jpg

I'm assuming that sub out or master 2 out is what you want to feed the sub with? And from what I can see, that's RCA, right?

This is what you want
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=SP-PHONE-RCA-2&source=froogle

Obviously, the length might not be right there, but you get the idea.

It would be better long term to get a 1/4" TS (from the board) to XLR (into the sub) and use those plugs instead.

Turn the level knob to the middle of its travel and adjust up or down based on how loud you want the sub and how hot the level is you're feeding it. You shouldn't mess with the HPF unless you're passing signal onto something else after the sub. If set up as above and the bass still seems weird, flip the polarity switch. You might be phasing or hitting room nodes if your sub is place oddly in the room in relation to the speakers. That'll be an instant, yes it is or no it isn't when you push it.
 
i have that sub I believe.



XLR's are probably the industry standard (i know that doesn't help you).

i was taken aback a few weeks back when I realized I didn't have 1/4 inch outs on my mixer. some behringer. rca and xlr's.
 
I don't believe theac is a "sound" person.


:fly:
good point.

1. free from injury, damage, defect, disease, etc.; in good condition; healthy; robust: a sound heart; a sound mind.
2. financially strong, secure, or reliable: a sound business; sound investments.
3. competent, sensible, or valid: sound judgment.
4. having no defect as to truth, justice, wisdom, or reason: sound advice.
5. of substantial or enduring character: sound moral values.
6. following in a systematic pattern without any apparent defect in logic: sound reasoning.
7. uninterrupted and untroubled; deep: sound sleep.
8. vigorous, thorough, or severe: a sound thrashing.
9. free from moral defect or weakness; upright, honest, or good; honorable; loyal.

:fly:
 
I just got this back from another friend in the biz

you aren't gonna have much luck trying to drive the input of that sub with your unbalanced outputs (i am going to assume that your 1/4" outs on your Vestax are unbalanced). that 1/4" input of the Eon sub is *speaker level*..... it's padded down massively - no way will any 1/4 or even XLR level signal have enough poop to make it sound decent.


you need either a transformer or -10 dB unbalanced to +4 balanced converter (often called a "bump box", they are made by various manufacturers). your 1/4" output is pushing out about .3V, trying to drive a balanced XLR input that normally sees an operating level of 1.2V

so, you probably have to drive your Vestax mixer to the point of distortion to even get things halfway loud through the sub (Vestax mixers will distort if you look at them the wrong way anyway.... they don't like to be driven too hot)

balanced gear and unbalanced gear have different operating levels, and while it's semi-acceptable to drop pin 3 of an XLR going into an unbalanced input (it's the inverted signal, and that will drop the signal level about 6 dB), it often doesn't work so well going from 1/4 to XLR - there is no magic way to get the extra level you need unless you are going into a preamp.

what i would do if i were you is if you have a spare Mackie 1202 mixer or similar, go into a pair of input channels (unbalanced 1/4). then come out of the 1202's main outs - those are balanced XLR and will drive the Eon sub no problemo. you want to use both inputs of the sub if possible, unless it's strictly a mono situation.

otherwise, go to Radio Shack and get a pair of 1/4 to XLR transformers. should be about $20 or $30, not the greatest hi-fi solution but everybody i know seems to have at least one or two pairs of those transformers for these kinds of situations. they are an audio toolbox essential item, just like RCA to 1/4 adapters and other audio connecters and turnarounds. no working DJ should be without them. you can get more expensive transformers, real good ones will cost 3-4 times that, but obviously sound better and take more level.