Ontopic The Shooting Thread

Petunia

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Nov 16, 2010
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I think Alec Baldwin the actor is innocent in this case. He got handed a gun by the assistant director and told it was cold.

But Alec Baldwin the producer, who was responsible for making sure shit was being done right, and was allowing these idiots to go shoot rounds with guns and then use the exact same guns in a film shoot... like that's a utter failure of management and that's on him to some degree.

this
 

august

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Sep 23, 2006
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First rule of handling weapons is don't point them at anything you don't want to destroy or always keep them pointed in a safe direction.

Second rule is always treat a weapon as if it was loaded.

Most drunk rednecks in the US manage not to shoot anyone by accident every year.
part of the issue is that the rules get fuckity when you're doing a movie. there's supposed to be some safety rules to mitigate it, like using non-functioning/rubber props unless you're doing a close-up where it would be super noticeable or if you're firing it. in this case, it was intended to be fired in the scene, so a rubber prop is out and you've got a firearm that is capable of firing. BECAUSE OF THIS, the second rule you listed should have been heeded by every person handling it, and every person handling it should be checking it every time they get handed it or pick it up if they lost sight of it.

the armorer shoulders the most blame here, there's absolutely no good reason to have ever put live rounds in the same weapon they're using for blanks because it needlessly introduces the very risk that came to fruition here. however, I do also think that Alec, or anyone else handling a firearm that is capable of firing anything, even if they're not intending to fire it, needs to receive training on how to clear every firearm they're going to handle and needs to be expected to clear it every time as mentioned above. they also need to be trained on the ammunition to be able to confirm that if there is ammunition in the firearm, it is the correct kind for the scene - ideally both clearing and ammunition check should be shown to a second party who also confirms it, and while the firearm is relieved of said ammunition, that's when they'd clear it. in medical procedures, they do something called a Time Out prior to proceeding, and it's a similar idea - even though they've already done it a bunch, everyone stops and with several different eyes all at the same time, they check and confirm they have the correct patient, the correct procedure, the correct body part, the correct laterality, etc.

you mentioned Brandon Lee, and while that's not the exact same scenario, it's a similar enough scenario that it warrants mentioning - the firearm that was being used was capable of firing, and they had swapped between what they put into it, so they had originally had dummy rounds in it and then switched to blanks, and that's what led to the fatal squib load - it would have been discovered had the weapon been cleared, but also it wouldn't have happened had they not been swapping what they loaded.

even blanks alone can cause fatal injury, see Jon-Erik Hexum, so there still needs to be an abundance of caution even when that IS the only load used in a particular firearm, and again everyone in the scene needs to have training to understand how it works and how to be safe.

people get WAY too comfortable with prop firearms that are absolutely still deadly because they treat them more as props than firearms.


Cliffs:
1. the rules get fuckity with film sets/props but there are still rules/procedures and they should be more stringent
2. the armorer fucked up big-time, tho
2a. stop fucking swapping between loads, if you really need both, spend the cash on the extra firearm and never cross the streams. just don't fucking do it.
3. anyone who will potentially handle a weapon capable of firing needs to be trained on how to clear that weapon and how to confirm the ammunition is the correct type
3a. this clearing & confirmation should be seconded a la Time Out procedure
3b. this clearing & confirmation needs to happen every time a firearm is handed off or picked up after being out of direct sight
3c. they also need to be trained on how the rounds function, even if they are "just blanks," because that shit can still kill, squib or no, and they need to be safe
 

ZRH

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Depending on the way they are making the blanks/dummy rounds, I could see that. However I'd expect that to be sequestered somehow.

But I make sense when it comes to safety, so who the fuck knows?
I'm surprised they were even using real guns. I watch a ton of special effects stuff and given the insurance costs it's pretty rare.

He'll that's why you don't see many armed guards. The insurance is insane.