Ontopic The Shooting Thread

august said:
dude reread what I read, the point of my post is that they aren't contradictions
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Sorry. You're pretty smart about political stuff even though we don't agree on a lot of it but I just don't see how one could read all that and not see so many contradictions and fallacies to where they don't just dismiss it as nuts.

Then again I could only get maybe half way through mein kampf before I just put it down. Too much psychobabble.
 
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DerHoggz said:
Our Big Boy President will freely rage against nearly anything but can only offer the most perfunctory of condolences when shit like this happens, and refuses to acknowledge the motivating force behind these events. The only people who can't (won't) connect the dots are those afraid of acknowledging how little separation there is between their own views and the views of these terrorists.
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@HipHugHer I believe this was the post that started your original reply/this thread of discussion. I read this as him referring to white supremacy as the motivating force (sentence 1) and that people refusing to connect it to white supremacy are at the very least sympathetic to the cause of white supremacy, if not believers themselves (sentence 2)
 
august said:
the bigger picture overview is the white supremacy, YOU'RE arguing over the little bits
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Maybe I just don't see the general population as being that extreme. Yes the extreme is there, but for every extremist I see on any end of the spectrum I see countless others that are more reasonable and manage to get along.
Talking everyday, face to face life.
 
HipHugHer said:
Maybe I just don't see the general population as being that extreme. Yes the extreme is there, but for every extremist I see on any end of the spectrum I see countless others that are more reasonable and manage to get along.
Talking everyday, face to face life.
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what does the general population have to do with it now


I genuinely don't understand what point you're trying to make
 
I'm trying to follow you & respond with specifics but you keep being vague & nonspecific & overly general
 
august said:
@HipHugHer I believe this was the post that started your original reply/this thread of discussion. I read this as him referring to white supremacy as the motivating force (sentence 1) and that people refusing to connect it to white supremacy are at the very least sympathetic to the cause of white supremacy, if not believers themselves (sentence 2)
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Yes, that was what I clipped the quote from to make the example.

IME, the "sympathetic closet supremacists" or whatever we shall call them are a ridiculously small percentage of people.

There are so many people that small percentage could actually be a large number of people (thousands? tens of thousands?) but very small compared to the whole.

Media and internet likes to take extreme things and portray them to be a common things. In real life I just don't see it.
 
HipHugHer said:
Yes, that was what I clipped the quote from to make the example.

IME, the "sympathetic closet supremacists" or whatever we shall call them are a ridiculously small percentage of people.

There are so many people that small percentage could actually be a large number of people (thousands? tens of thousands?) but very small compared to the whole.

Media and internet likes to take extreme things and portray them to be a common things. In real life I just don't see it.
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a) I think a lot more people than you think are passively sympathetic to white supremacy; the "I'm not racist, but" folks, and
b) if they're NOT sympathetic to the cause of white supremacy, what other reason could there be for them to claim they don't think this is that? because above you agreed that the one consistent, overarching theme was white supremacy, so regardless of the inconsistencies that are unrelated to white supremacy and that I don't think are as inconsistent as you think, they should be able to see that, right? so what reason besides a willful ignorance could there be?
 
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"passive" racism is still racism, and still feeds into the larger picture of racially motivated violence. I'm sure you know more than a handful of "I'm not racist, but I'd be upset if my daughter brought home a black guy" folks, or "I'm not racist, I'd only call SOME black people n-words, you know, if they were acting like n-words" folks, or "I'm not racist, but I fully believe in the idea that Reagan's black welfare queens are the norm & are killing America, but it's OK because I also believe that the blacks could be successful, you know? like my one black friend, who isn't really a friend like I don't ever actually hang out with him or whatever but I like KNOW him, you know? and he's one of the good ones" folks
 
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august said:
I'm trying to follow you & respond with specifics but you keep being vague & nonspecific & overly general
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If you were to come down here, say from another planet, having never had any interpersonal contact, and your only impression of us was from news media and social media, you would think this place is nothing but beings that hate each other and scream at each other and can't possibly interact without fighting...and that's on the good days. Other days we kill each other.

In reality that just ain't so. Millions of us manage to interact and get along and be generally nice or at least indifferent/leave each other alone every single day.

This guy wants to take that normal be nice/get along vibe and destroy it. And the way his words are getting parsed and used to start arguments and the way people are taking the bait, it's working.
 
I guess I just don't see the world as being full of closet supremacists waiting to pounce or whatever. Sure they're out there. Enough of them they can communicate and reinforce each other's views and some will snap and do violent things but as a portion of the whole they are very small. Most of us get along OK.
 
HipHugHer said:
Bordering on a purely political discussion here but again, you're playing into exactly the kind of stuff the guy said he hoped to achieve.

Somewhere there is a level of lunacy where you are no longer left/right/up/down, you're just nuts. This guy attained that level.

Picking molehills of his "ideas" and turning them into mountains was the goal. You (and he) are "winning".
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Every last American killed by extremists last year was killed by a right-wing extremist. That's the single biggest threat to our country and y'inz treat every one as random. This is a political discussion because the Republican party has been taken over by radicals. There's little to no space between these "whackjobs" and mainstream Republican ideology.

Left wing "radicalism" as represented in the US gov't is shit like healthcare, education, equitable taxation, just generally improving the circumstances of as many people as possible. The Republican Party is opposed to these popular things and embraced radicals in order to maintain power. The figurehead President encourages this violence in a way that is deniable to those either too ignorant or too amenable to recognize fascism.
 
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HipHugHer said:
I guess I just don't see the world as being full of closet supremacists waiting to pounce or whatever. Sure they're out there. Enough of them they can communicate and reinforce each other's views and some will snap and do violent things but as a portion of the whole they are very small. Most of us get along OK.
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then again I ask: what alternate reason can you give for folks that won't see this for the act of white supremacy that it was?

and I already brought up that most are "passive," some examples of what that looks like, and that the views and behavior of those folks are a stepping stone to worse. they may not themselves do or believe worse, but they don't exist in a vacuum. this shit is systemic.

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HipHugHer said:
I guess I just don't see the world as being full of closet supremacists waiting to pounce or whatever. Sure they're out there. Enough of them they can communicate and reinforce each other's views and some will snap and do violent things but as a portion of the whole they are very small. Most of us get along OK.
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