The Housing Bubble - An example


yea, nowhere does it say bidding.

a short sale, in the financial world, is anytime someone accepts less money on a debt than what's owed and considers it free and clear. when dealing with real estate, it refers to a very specific case of accepting less money than whats owed on a mortgage.

let me walk you through it.

First, someone stops paying there loan. obviously, if they dont start paying again (ie: set up a loan modification, qaulify for an interest free fha loan to cover the missing payments, etc.) it'll go into forclosure. after 90 days, the official foreclosure process starts with the bank filing a les pendons at the court house. then the whole world knows...

Now, the official foreclosure hasn't happened yet, the bank hasn't taken back the deed to the house yet, but the process has started. During this entire time before the foreclosure happens, what's called a short sale can occur.

A lender typically has a short sale packet (ask your lender for one, they'll be able to send it to you), in which you gotta fill it out and submit tons of information proving you can no longer make payment becuase of life altering situation and you have no money to settle with. Typically, a 3rd party does this. While the homeowner can shortsale their own home, banks will almost always require a 3rd party to be doing it if you want to have any success. You submit the shortsale packet, and the bank will get a BPO or have your house actually appraised to figure out market value. If the house is upside down, it's in a market where homes arn't moving, etc... they may accept a short sale. Basically, they'll offer to settle for 65cents-75cents on the dollar of the loan (usually that range, so, as low as 65% of the loan value). The 3rd party typically arranges to have a buyer buy the home with cash at this steeply discounted rate, and sometimes this buyer is found through creating a "fire sale" on the MLS by simply posting it as 85% of the apraised value or whatever depending on the house.

so, we have a house that is going to be foreclosed on, but before it does the bank offers a short sale. lets say you're the 3rd party and you short sold someone's home that owed 100k on a 100k mortage, and the bank gave you 65% on the dollar and set a date for the short sale transaction... lets say, 30 days from the time they approved doing the short sale, all the official money transfer and paperwork will be done. so you need to come up with 65k in cash to own this thing free and clear. part of the shortsale packet is going to be proving that you have the 65k to buy it yourself, but lets say you dont want it, so you list it on the MLS for 85k, and the thing gets snapped up before the date at which the short sale takes place. you lose 6% in comissions to realtor fees, another few % for closing costs... you come in with a nice healthy 10-12k profit. the original homeowner got out from underneath the house that was gonna ruin their credit, and the bank gets to write off the loss and not take a credit hit.

Lets for a second, talk about why a bank would do this. When a bank has to foreclose on a property, they lose lending power. Meaning, the banks above them won't give them as much money to loan out... for every 1 million in foreclosures, a bank can lose up to 9 million in lending power. This is bad news for banks, becuase they arn't in the real estate business and dont want to be taking back properties, they're in the lending business. If a bank accepts a shortsale, they can write off the bad debt, and don't lose any lending power.

Lets pretend the shortsale did not go through and it DID go into foreclosure. First, the bank would take the house back. The house would then be put on auction at a foreclosure auction, with the minimum bid being what's owed on the bad mortgage of the house. If noone wants to pay that minimum bid (becuase of house declines, maybe the house was way upside down so the minimum bid is 400k for a house that now only appraises at 250k), then the bank gets stuck with an REO (real estate owned property). Now, while people made money at these auctions in the past, now everyone knows about them so often if a house that was foreclosed on had 100k in equity, so it appraises for 250k and it's going up to auction for 150k becuase that's all that was owed on the loan, it'll often get bid up to fair market value anymore. this means that you arn't going to buy a house at a foreclosure auction for cheap anymore and resale it for huge profits and get rich quick anymore. sure, deals come by, but it's rare.

So now the bank has an REO. the bank will fix up the property, and then hey list it with an agent and it goes on the MLS. typically if person A puts in an offer on a house, the seller can reject the offer and move on, or negotiate and counter offer. once they make a counter offer, person A can either accept it or make another counter at which point the seller can reject it and move onto the person B's offer. in other words, once they're negotiating with you, if someone else comes along and says "I'LL DOUBLE HIS PRICE!", tough shit you still got first dibs on whatever original prices you were discussing, up to the actual listed price. in otherwords, its a sales negotiation with the first person you choose to deal with. it doesnt turn into a bidding situation if multiple people want the property. why is this important? becuase with REO's, none of that applies.

with an REO, you submit an offer and the bank will counter offer. at any time during this process the bank can say "someone else offered us more, so we're gonna deal with them instead, unless you want to up your offer". this creates a bidding situation over multiple people wanting the property.

if the original loan on the property was 400k, it appraised for 250k, the bank put 10k into cleaning it up, and they end up selling it as an REO for 230k... they obviously lost alot of money and end up losing alot of lending power, but at least it gets it off the books and they can move on with life. remember what i said earlier? banks aren't in the real estate business, they're in the lending business.

so... short sales --> foreclosure --> foreclosure auction --> REO. that's the natural progression of a house if nobody wants it. short sales are rare, up until this year banks rarely accepted short sale offers but now they're desperate and i think some obama legsislation gives them incentives to accept short sale offers now.


as for "they do it different here", the nationwide shortsale negotiation company i've worked with is HQ'd in florida, so i doubt they have some super different definitions from the rest of the world on how they conduct real estate business. while every state has slightly different processes and nuances, what i just told you is the generic version of how real estate works in every state, every area.

any questions? i'm getting pretty well versed at this stuff.
 
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I'm not reading all that. Cliffs?

Anyway, I didn't use the term bidding, but the bank will accept more than one offer. A good friend of mine just went through this process to buy a house a block from me. He submitted an offer, as did some other guy. The bank ended up taking my friend's offer.
 
I'm not reading all that. Cliffs?

Anyway, I didn't use the term bidding, but the bank will accept more than one offer. A good friend of mine just went through this process to buy a house a block from me. He submitted an offer, as did some other guy. The bank ended up taking my friend's offer.
he's saying that before it goes to a shortsale it goes through a foreclosure auction. only after the foreclosure auction will the bank take ownership of the house directly (so they own the house, not the mortgage, hence REO) at which point it will consider a short sale.

I don't know if that is true.
 
Our friends short sale worked where he had to wait for the old tenants to move out. Seems pretty stemless down here.
 
he's saying that before it goes to a shortsale it goes through a foreclosure auction. only after the foreclosure auction will the bank take ownership of the house directly (so they own the house, not the mortgage, hence REO) at which point it will consider a short sale.

I don't know if that is true.

But that's not how it works. In a short sale, the person still owns the house. The bank just agrees to take less than the note to "pay off" the mortgage.
 
But that's not how it works. In a short sale, the person still owns the house. The bank just agrees to take less than the note to "pay off" the mortgage.
but if you stop making mortgage payments, why wouldn't they foreclose? and if you're still making mortgage payments, why would they agree to a short sale?
 
but if you stop making mortgage payments, why wouldn't they foreclose? and if you're still making mortgage payments, why would they agree to a short sale?

A short sale is usually used as an alternative to foreclosure. It gets the bank some money without the hassle of a full foreclosure, and it's slightly less harmful to a persons credit score. Most banks will only do a short sale if you are having trouble paying your mortgage due to some life changing event. If the short sale doesn't work (get a buyer, not have all the proper paperwork, bank just doesn't accept, etc) then it would still eventually end up as a foreclosure.
 
but if you stop making mortgage payments, why wouldn't they foreclose? and if you're still making mortgage payments, why would they agree to a short sale?

It's usually what happens right before the foreclosure process begins. Generally the owner hasn't made any payments in 6-12 months.
 
So, I heard real estate fraud is the next big thing happening in the finance industry... *cough*
 
I still think underestimating the bank is a bad idea. Settlement is not going to be appealing to them if they can get market value.
 
I'm not reading all that. Cliffs?

Anyway, I didn't use the term bidding, but the bank will accept more than one offer. A good friend of mine just went through this process to buy a house a block from me. He submitted an offer, as did some other guy. The bank ended up taking my friend's offer.

sounds like he bought an REO, as explained above. :D

he's saying that before it goes to a shortsale it goes through a foreclosure auction. only after the foreclosure auction will the bank take ownership of the house directly (so they own the house, not the mortgage, hence REO) at which point it will consider a short sale.

I don't know if that is true.

no no, if a shortsale happens, it happens BEFORE the house is foreclosed on so the bank can write off the losses and move on without it affecting their lending power. Bank has to approve the shortsale, but the deed never goes to the bank. when it's foreclosed, the bank attempts to sell the mortgage, if it fails, the deed goes to the bank and it becomes an REO. the mortgage is gone at this point, its already on the books as bad debt, and the bank has lost lending power.

But that's not how it works. In a short sale, the person still owns the house. The bank just agrees to take less than the note to "pay off" the mortgage.

yes.

but if you stop making mortgage payments, why wouldn't they foreclose? and if you're still making mortgage payments, why would they agree to a short sale?

banks arn't in the real estate business, they're in the lending business. they don't WANT to own property... owning it ties up money they want to be lending to other people, and prevents them from getting more money to lend to other people. the people that lend banks money see's the bank as a bad credit risk if they're foreclosing on all of their mortgages... so they lend someone else money instead. think of it like this: banks have a credit score too basically, and with each foreclosure they gotta do, that credit score goes down... preventing them from borrowing more money to lend to people.

A short sale is usually used as an alternative to foreclosure. It gets the bank some money without the hassle of a full foreclosure, and it's slightly less harmful to a persons credit score. Most banks will only do a short sale if you are having trouble paying your mortgage due to some life changing event. If the short sale doesn't work (get a buyer, not have all the proper paperwork, bank just doesn't accept, etc) then it would still eventually end up as a foreclosure.

yes. exactly. see guys, kiwi gets it!

It's usually what happens right before the foreclosure process begins. Generally the owner hasn't made any payments in 6-12 months.

after 90 days the lis pendons is filed at the courthouse, this is when the official foreclosure process begins. the auction date is usually set at 120 days or sometimes even later.

I still think underestimating the bank is a bad idea. Settlement is not going to be appealing to them if they can get market value.

in neighborhoods where days on market is 15 days and properties are selling like hotcakes, there's a good chance the homeowner can sell the property and repay the bank right before the foreclosure happens. otherwise, the bank is looking at holding a property, tieing up their lending funds, having to deal with fixing up the property and selling it, etc... its a giant headache they dont want to deal with, and all these things are takin into consideration before the shortsale.

yes, the bank wants to do what's best for them and they will. when they run the calculations though, sometimes a short sale makes more sense. other times foreclosing and selling the property then going after the homeowner for the difference makes more sense (if they know the homeowner has the money, otherwise they won't bother typically... they're better off saving on the court costs)
 
also, banks typically approve shortsales when the house is upside down, which happens alot these days with the declining markets. if the house has 100k in equity, they'll foreclose on it and make profits from reselling it.
 
sounds like he bought an REO, as explained above. :D

He bought a house from the previous owners in a short sale. At that point, it is NOT an REO. Shawn also recently sold his house in a short sale.

after 90 days the lis pendons is filed at the courthouse, this is when the official foreclosure process begins. the auction date is usually set at 120 days or sometimes even later.

There are no hard and fast rules on this stuff man. It's when the bank gets around to it. A friend of mine, his parents haven't made a payment on their house in almost two years. The bank hasn't even started any proceedings.
 
90 days is the minimum. the ones i look for are typically 6 months out. you said above he submitted an offer to a bank, along with someone else.

shawn sold his house on a shortsale? so was he upside down? what was the major life changing event that happened? going back to school doesnt count. the reason why you cant continue making your mortgage payments is the single biggest factor in if a bank will decide to shortsale.
 
shawn sold his house on a shortsale? so was he upside down? what was the major life changing event that happened? going back to school doesnt count. the reason why you cant continue making your mortgage payments is the single biggest factor in if a bank will decide to shortsale.

I'm guessing divorce in his case.