Advice The Home Improvement/Automation Thread

We've already established you can run a new neutral from the outlet, if that's easier, because they're on the same circuit.

Either pull a neutral from fan box to switch box through the existing conduit (preferred, because the wiring will make fucking sense to the next person) or pull it from the outlet.
 
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gee said:
We've already established you can run a new neutral from the outlet, if that's easier, because they're on the same circuit.

Either pull a neutral from fan box to switch box through the existing conduit (preferred, because the wiring will make fucking sense to the next person) or pull it from the outlet.
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I think he should run it through his pee hole first.
 
fly said:
@Jehannum made it seem like my question wasn't crazy. If all neutrals are tied together at the panel, what is this multimeter test going to show? I'm really trying to learn here...
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its a quick risk reduction based on my personal experience. Ive gotten shocked on outlets that were "off" by the breaker. They wouldnt power a 120v appliance, but they had voltage on em due to shitty previous work (including hidden j-boxes, like you have).

Its tends towards "panicky" as you would call it, but its a quick check to make sure you dont blow up your new smart switch. Takes 5 seconds, why not do it?
 
fly said:
@Jehannum made it seem like my question wasn't crazy. If all neutrals are tied together at the panel, what is this multimeter test going to show? I'm really trying to learn here...
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I'll try.
1. For practical purposes, AC is different than DC, DC is like 2 cars colliding head on. POsitive vs. Negative. AC is more like "everything is trying to run the same direction - to ground. " This crucial. So....

THe neutrals all go to ground - current is "trying" to get from hot to neutral. Neutral is essentially = to ground but only at the panel. don't worry about that part ;)

Once HOT travels through a device(say a light fixture), there is HOT over on the neutral side/lug of the device. But neutral is the "best route" so HOT wants to take that.
"Best route" is based on "ground potential" - which ground really can carry the most current fastest? Like T1 vs. T2 :)
BOT - you tie two neutrals and that HOT that has moved through a device can "decide", the other neutral, or you has better potential.
And that's when the fight starts. Done.

P.S. In a worse case scenario, usually where some circuits mainly had some incandescent lights or other inductive devices on them(turned on), the joined circuits would create a situation that looks like 180-190 at an outlet but pop no breakers. Basically weirdly throttled 240 at the outlet. The incandescents could endure it, finer electronics were generally toast. Seen that shit. ugggh.
 
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Jehannum said:
If you feel like doing it, do it. You won't learn anything new unless your house was already seriously at risk of burning down.
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I'll do it, but I don't understand how I'd see current from the line if the breaker is off, or from ground if all the neutrals tie in at the panel. I'm hoping to understand the scenario where that is possible.
 
fly said:
I'll do it, but I don't understand how I'd see current from the line if the breaker is off, or from ground if all the neutrals tie in at the panel. I'm hoping to understand the scenario where that is possible.
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For the love of god man - you said you understood what i wrote. You didn't. THere is HOT, HOT, mother fucking HOT at the neutral bar if even a single breaker is on and has a device that lets any amount of HOT go to neutral. Anywhere in the house.
Deadly HOT is there, it just decides to take the best route to ground. A decent VOM can detect that.
* I personally feel safer with an analog meter at those moments.


DC has no ground - so in some way's is deadlier. But AC can play games - and that shit is deadly too.
 
wetwillie said:
I'll try.
1. For practical purposes, AC is different than DC, DC is like 2 cars colliding head on. POsitive vs. Negative. AC is more like "everything is trying to run the same direction - to ground. " This crucial. So....

THe neutrals all go to ground - current is "trying" to get from hot to neutral. Neutral is essentially = to ground but only at the panel. don't worry about that part ;)

Once HOT travels through a device(say a light fixture), there is HOT over on the neutral side/lug of the device. But neutral is the "best route" so HOT wants to take that.
"Best route" is based on "ground potential" - which ground really can carry the most current fastest? Like T1 vs. T2 :)
BOT - you tie two neutrals and that HOT that has moved through a device can "decide", the other neutral, or you has better potential.
And that's when the fight starts. Done.

P.S. In a worse case scenario, usually where some circuits mainly had some incandescent lights or other inductive devices on them(turned on), the joined circuits would create a situation that looks like 180-190 at an outlet but pop no breakers. Basically weirdly throttled 240 at the outlet. The incandescents could endure it, finer electronics were generally toast. Seen that shit. ugggh.
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"But neutral is the "best route" so HOT wants to take that."

important to note here that this is what keeps you as a person from being shocked by a neutral. Even if its got 120v's on it, you're a shittier ground than the bonded ground/neutral at the panel.
 
fly said:
I'll do it, but I don't understand how I'd see current from the line if the breaker is off, or from ground if all the neutrals tie in at the panel. I'm hoping to understand the scenario where that is possible.
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all you're doing is seeing if the neutral is carrying some current from another circuit, which means that there's something more profoundly wrong with your wiring than I previously thought.
 
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Jehannum said:
all you're doing is seeing if the neutral is carrying some current from another circuit, which means that there's something more profoundly wrong with your wiring than I previously thought.
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thats right, he's just checking that his neutral isnt carrying some shit it shouldnt. The situation is a weird enough its worth checkign.
 
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Domon said:
"But neutral is the "best route" so HOT wants to take that."

important to note here that this is what keeps you as a person from being shocked by a neutral. Even if its got 120v's on it, you're a shittier ground than the bonded ground/neutral at the panel.
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Sorry I made that bitch crack on your test - I've proposed worst shit. FLy just had me a frustrated. Wasn't him really - some other turd in my personal life.

BOT. Yeah, ground is cool and mysterious magic.
 
fly said:
This was done in 1998, there's no neutral on the switch, and it seems the NEC allows it. What's really weird about this?
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the receptacle box, and how thats tied into the circuit.

This is your exact setup if the receptacle box werent in place i think

ceiling-fan-speed-and-dimmer-switch-wiring-diagram.gif


The question is, how is the receptacle getting power. Before the fan, after the fan?
 
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In all this talking, you coulda fixed this like like thr
Valve1138 said:
So the sparky ran individual conductors to the switch box via the conduit and didn't run a neutral?

So run the neutral.

Also, YOU'LL BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN.
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hey, welcome back fucko.

Also, im installing my garden setup thats kinda like yours as we speak. Got the tenex cflex on order. Should be good.
 
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