Remain optimistic

[shawndavid]

Although there's no way we're pulling everyone out. We'll have 'temporary' bases there like in South Korea...



BAGHDAD, Iraq - Eleven Sunni insurgent groups have offered an immediate halt to all attacks — including those on American troops — if the United States agrees to withdraw foreign forces from
Iraq in two years, insurgent and government officials told The Associated Press on Wednesday.
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Withdrawal is the centerpiece of a set of demands from the groups, which operate north of Baghdad in the heavily Sunni Arab provinces of Salahuddin and Diyala. Although much of the fighting has been to the west, those provinces are increasingly violent and attacks there have crippled oil and commerce routes.

The groups who've made contact have largely shunned attacks on Iraqi civilians, focusing instead on the U.S.-led coalition forces. Their offer coincides with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's decision to reach out to the Sunni insurgency with a reconciliation plan that includes an amnesty for fighters.

more here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060628/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_060628170117;_ylt=AgGBlnWZhZivxzv5S2pr8HVX6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

 

[ZRH]

If only they would let us unleash the full power of the US Armed Forces.

 

[fly]

If only they would let us unleash the full power of the US Armed Forces.

Define that plz.

 

[ZRH]

Define that plz.

If you are going for a trap you aren't going to get much.

We right now are serving as a police force in a country overrun with criminals. Essentially we aren’t fighting it like a war because it would look bad. We are there ostensibly to rebuild their country after years of rule by a dictator. Ok go us!

The inaction? of the general populace to expose the admittedly foreign insurgents brings up a couple of points. We could, continue as we are fighting defensively and taking the high road. We could also give them the war they want, destroy Iraq's entire infrastructure, place entire cities under house arrest, essentially start taking a proactive approach to dealing with the insurgency. Bombing anything and anyone that may be collaborating, helping, hiding, or housing insurgents etc.

We are taking the high road though and it's something to be proud of. We will not negotiate with terrorists in any case. This is just some drive by reporting as usual by the wire services.

 

[my little brony]

We could also give them the war they want, destroy Iraq's entire infrastructure, place entire cities under house arrest, essentially start taking a proactive approach to dealing with the insurgency. Bombing anything and anyone that may be collaborating, helping, hiding, or housing insurgents etc.

Is that really the best way to supposedly spread freedom?

 

[ZRH]

Is that really the best way to supposedly spread freedom?

You took that out of context. I was just saying we have the capability to, not that we should.

 

[water]

Someone in the The Pit posed the question "How many countries could the US Armed Forces take over?"

The most intelligent answer: "With our current politics? None."

I still firmly believe that we either need to deal such crushing blows to our enemies that it becomes apparent that attacking us is an lunacy, or we need to cut ourselves off from the world except for those countries who it is beneficial (for us) to trade with.

 

[simple]

If only they would let us unleash the full power of the US Armed Forces.

 

[my little brony]

You took that out of context. I was just saying we have the capability to, not that we should.

Yeah but your original comment was "if they'd only let us...". If we unleashed the full power of the US armed forced it would more than likely make things worse. That region would be even more unstable unless we decide to really push forward on this Persian Incursion and conquer Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. That may seem like a good idea on the surface but imagine how the rest of the world would react.

Yeah it'd be nice to think that the US can be fine and dandy not caring what other nations think, not trading with anyone, going back to the isolationism of 19th century but it's doubtful that it could happen any time soon.

 

[Sarcasmo]

We haven't unleashed the U.S. military because that's not what we're there to do. We're there to liberate, not conquer. Ostensibly, I mean.

 

[ZRH]

Yeah but your original comment was "if they'd only let us...". If we unleashed the full power of the US armed forced it would more than likely make things worse. That region would be even more unstable unless we decide to really push forward on this Persian Incursion and conquer Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. That may seem like a good idea on the surface but imagine how the rest of the world would react.

Yeah it'd be nice to think that the US can be fine and dandy not caring what other nations think, not trading with anyone, going back to the isolationism of 19th century but it's doubtful that it could happen any time soon.

It was in response to the news story. I seem to remember the NY Times announcing it was a quagmire 3 DAYS after fighting started. We have a press/media that is actively undermining our interest. Most people believe we actually couldnt win in Iraq, not that we're just being nice about it.

 

[my little brony]

The press/media is supposed to be scrutinizing everything the government does. Our is so opaque that often media exposure of NSA wiretaps or prisoner abuse is the only level of transparency we enjoy.

This war has been a clusterfuck since day one. Many people believe that we can't win there for a good reason. This is a conflict of ideologies; bullets and bombs are not the way to bring about peace.

 

[fly]

It was in response to the news story. I seem to remember the NY Times announcing it was a quagmire 3 DAYS after fighting started. We have a press/media that is actively undermining our interest. Most people believe we actually couldnt win in Iraq, not that we're just being nice about it.

Are you really just blaming the press and not the administration?

 

[ZRH]

The press/media is supposed to be scrutinizing everything the government does. Our is so opaque that often media exposure of NSA wiretaps or prisoner abuse is the only level of transparency we enjoy.

This war has been a clusterfuck since day one. Many people believe that we can't win there for a good reason. This is a conflict of ideologies; bullets and bombs are not the way to bring about peace.

Since day one? We started bombing in October and were marching on Kabul by November. It is now actually doing extremely well from a security standpoint compared to where it was in 2001. We invaded, and occupied, successfully all in 2 months.

Iraq, March 20th bombing starts, by late April we've secured Baghdad. Since then we've been policing for the most part. The only major secondary struggle was Fallujah. We had standing orders to leave roads, bridges, dams, power stations etc. intact. Because as has been pointed out the idea was to give them liberty.

Almost all the isurgent activity in Iraq is from foriegners. Your average Iraqi is rather glad that the US is there. So it is winnable in my eyes. If truly a war of ideologies as you and your kinda keep saying, then there is really only one solution as advocated in my first/second post. If Islam is truly 100% against the US then I have no qualms about eliminating Islam from the picture. We have the capability.

 

[ZRH]

Are you really just blaming the press and not the administration?

The press selectively reports based on their own agenda. We have had several problems but that is all you hear about. They never report American successes. There is a practical media blackout of every victory we've had in this war.

Could you imagine if the press corps we have now existed in WW2? Youd be getting streaming reports on the human rights abuses of the Marine Corps against the poor freedom loving Japanese.

 

[fly]

The press selectively reports based on their own agenda. We have had several problems but that is all you hear about. They never report American successes. There is a practical media blackout of every victory we've had in this war.

You don't get a cookie for being right. Ever had a job? How many times has your boss told you, "Good job." Now compare that to how many times s/he has told you where you fuct up. It would be great if that happened, but this is the real world.

Could you imagine if the press corps we have now existed in WW2? Youd be getting streaming reports on the human rights abuses of the Marine Corps against the poor freedom loving Japanese.

I seriously doubt that. The insurgents look like schoolkids compared to the Japanese, and no one loves the insurgents. And lets face it, the press is what you want it to be. There are THOUSANDS of stories and you pick out the ones you (do not) want to hear.

 

[ZRH]

You don't get a cookie for being right. Ever had a job? How many times has your boss told you, "Good job." Now compare that to how many times s/he has told you where you fuct up. It would be great if that happened, but this is the real world.

So you deny there is any political leaning in the press. Ok, maybe you'll redeem yourself in the next segment.

I seriously doubt that. The insurgents look like schoolkids compared to the Japanese, and no one loves the insurgents. And lets face it, the press is what you want it to be. There are THOUSANDS of stories and you pick out the ones you (do not) want to hear.

Woops no. You know how much news the average American watches? Turn on network channel at 6pm, watch it for ONE hour. That is what the news is. Out of millions maybe hundreds of thousands pick up the sort of news I do. I think my RSS is on something to the effect of 500 news agencies with 230 filter words. I get maybe 3 stories a week that have anything to do with what I'm looking for.

 

[my little brony]

The press selectively reports based on their own agenda. We have had several problems but that is all you hear about. They never report American successes. There is a practical media blackout of every victory we've had in this war.

Could you imagine if the press corps we have now existed in WW2? Youd be getting streaming reports on the human rights abuses of the Marine Corps against the poor freedom loving Japanese.

Yet they were grossly lacking in the reports of human rights and civil liberties abuses of American citizens of Japanese decent on our own soil. Evolution of the media has both good and bad points.

As to your previous post, it's been a clusterfuck in terms of public opinion. That may not mean much to you but in a world where global communication and trade is essential to the survival of every nation on the planet it's a damn big deal. As far as the war itself, there's no telling how much should have been accomplished by now but to be honest no amount would surprise me. This war isn't about bringing stability to the middle east, it isn't about liberating the poor Iraqi people or finding a warehouse of rusty old shells, it isn't about getting a bad man out of power or securing more oil.

This "war on terror" will go on for as long as the US Federal Government can use it to continually strip us of our civil rights. It will continue until more American citizens on American soil can be held for years without trial or charge (Jose Pedilla, anyone?), it will continue until news outlets are silenced for daring to publicize the crimes of the elite in power, and it will continue until DiFi and Hillary and Schumer are able to walk into our homes and confiscate every firearm we own like the citizens of New Orleans.

It's been a while since I stopped caring about what this war is doing to Iraq. I no longer give a damn about that country or that region, I couldn't care less about Saddam. I don't care about Haliburton or the oil, I don't give two shits what the Canadians and French and Australians and Germans think of what we're doing. At this point the only thing that concerns me is that fucking camel's nose in my goddamn tent. As long as this "war on terror" goes on you and I will continue to slowly ebb away our own freedoms just like the "war on drugs" already has.

 

[ZRH]

Yet they were grossly lacking in the reports of human rights and civil liberties abuses of American citizens of Japanese decent on our own soil. Evolution of the media has both good and bad points.

Undoubtably.

As to your previous post, it's been a clusterfuck in terms of public opinion. That may not mean much to you but in a world where global communication and trade is essential to the survival of every nation on the planet it's a damn big deal. As far as the war itself, there's no telling how much should have been accomplished by now but to be honest no amount would surprise me. This war isn't about bringing stability to the middle east, it isn't about liberating the poor Iraqi people or finding a warehouse of rusty old shells, it isn't about getting a bad man out of power or securing more oil.

This "war on terror" will go on for as long as the US Federal Government can use it to continually strip us of our civil rights. It will continue until more American citizens on American soil can be held for years without trial or charge (Jose Pedilla, anyone?), it will continue until news outlets are silenced for daring to publicize the crimes of the elite in power, and it will continue until DiFi and Hillary and Schumer are able to walk into our homes and confiscate every firearm we own like the citizens of New Orleans.

It's been a while since I stopped caring about what this war is doing to Iraq. I no longer give a damn about that country or that region, I couldn't care less about Saddam. I don't care about Haliburton or the oil, I don't give two shits what the Canadians and French and Australians and Germans think of what we're doing. At this point the only thing that concerns me is that fucking camel's nose in my goddamn tent. As long as this "war on terror" goes on you and I will continue to slowly ebb away our own freedoms just like the "war on drugs" already has.

Ah, I had thought you were criticizing the war in it's warring function. By which I mean the normal BS my parents are normally on about how we cant tactically win blah blah blah.

The so called 'Republican' administration has essentially disenfranchised their voters and done something incredibly stupid. Giving the even more retarded party the ability to use tools agianst their interest. If people think Bush is bad they have no idea what another Clinton would do to the US with the Patriot Act. That is another conversation though.

 

[fly]

So you deny there is any political leaning in the press. Ok, maybe you'll redeem yourself in the next segment.

The press ALWAYS leans the opposite way that you do. Ask a democrat which way the press leans, then ask a republican. The majority of people will say it favors the other party. Why haven't you of all people figured this out?

Woops no. You know how much news the average American watches? Turn on network channel at 6pm, watch it for ONE hour. That is what the news is. Out of millions maybe hundreds of thousands pick up the sort of news I do. I think my RSS is on something to the effect of 500 news agencies with 230 filter words. I get maybe 3 stories a week that have anything to do with what I'm looking for.

Well, if you're looking for the mating habits of the flying squirrel... You inferred that all the press is talking about is how we're beating up on the poor, freedom-loving Iraqis and that simply isn't true.