GAY Personal conflict about the Orlando mass shooting

dbzeag

Wants to kiss you where it stinks
Jun 9, 2006
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So after reading lots of stories about the mass murders at the club in Orlando, from many different sides including even Fox News, I have a bit of a personal dilemma.

The LGBT movement toward equality has moved VERY quickly in the last 50 years. Many people have fought and died for this group to be accepted or at least to be tolerated by society rather than ostracized or much worse. During that time of struggle members of the LGBT group banned together; safety in numbers as the saying goes. As acceptance slowly grew in the early days, so did these communities. People out in public were getting more accepted and therefore more visible. People could now find other like-minded people more easily when they were readily visible. To protect one another, to make sure each other's business and livelihood survived, gayborhoods grew up. Just like other immigrant populations, LGBT pockets of cities came up. People could find comfort in knowing other people like them were in the world after they got kicked out of their families or jobs or apartments.

Now, however, as LGBT populations are even more accepted and embraced by society, the need for safety and protection to each other has lessened. Gays are starting to move to the suburbs in record numbers, for cheaper land, to exercise their newly granted ability to adopt a family, to make it on their own without fear of being fired or linched.

During the Orlando tragedy, however, I saw the advantages of having a close-knit group supporting each other. Almost immediately vigils popped up in gayborhoods all over the world. Drives to get the FDA to loosen it's stance on blood donation bans to gays reached critical mass. Massive donations, not just for survivors, but grief counseling for the families of the victims came through by the millions.

But my conflict is, what will happen again in the future when those support groups are not so readily available? Day by day I see businesses in the gayborhoods closing because gays don't live there or shop there anymore and they cannot stay open. Events are not "gay" events anymore so much as "gay friendly". The LGBT community is losing its identity, for good and bad.

Isn't blending into society the point of the equality movement? But then doesn't the group lose identity and independence in fighting for that? This event happened at a "gay" bar, but things like gay bars are becoming a relic of the past.

I have a feeling the shooting might not have happened, if it was indeed targeted toward gays, if gays were 100% accepted in today's society. But then again, the outpouring of love and unity for the survivors wouldn't have happened, either.

I am conflicted because I am in between the generation that invented the gay culture and equality movement and the generation that does not know there is even a movement because they already (almost) have equality.
 
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I thought this was going to be a wickie troll post. Im glad it not

Obviously you're more qualified than any of us to feel and think and talk about this topic. That said, while we still dont know for sure, the reasoning behind this massacre was either rationale from a group (non-us group) that is not accepting, invading the safer space that you described. Or alternatively, a self-loathing individual, using ISIS as an excuse for his inner shit going on.

Or maybe both.

Either way, its sad that people died. Those people happened to be gay, and in a concentrated environment. But it could have been any mix of people and been equally sad.
 
Isn't blending into society the point of the equality movement? But then doesn't the group lose identity and independence in fighting for that?

Yes to both. That's the sacrifice that gets made when a historically oppressed minority becomes more accepted by society.

Whether or not it's worth it is up to each individual but I would imagine every group that goes through this sees a net benefit from it.
 
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Yes to both. That's the sacrifice that gets made when a historically oppressed minority becomes more accepted by society.

Whether or not it's worth it is up to each individual but I would imagine every group that goes through this sees a net benefit from it.

And that's where my conflict comes in. I am proud of the LGBT group and it's organization and outpouring of love, but to be able to be a group like that, the group has to keep society at arm's length. I know a lot of people in the community that are not ready to gain acceptance by losing individuality.
 
And that's where my conflict comes in. I am proud of the LGBT group and it's organization and outpouring of love, but to be able to be a group like that, the group has to keep society at arm's length. I know a lot of people in the community that are not ready to gain acceptance by losing individuality.

Thats contrary to the very concepts you're asking for. You cant be equal, but separate. Thats not equal.
 
You can still be proud to be yourself, even when you're accepted by society. That's the point. Be proud of who you are, no matter what. Be proud to be normal. Be proud to be white or Columbian, be proud to live in a mansion or apartment, be proud to be single or married, gay or straight, left handed or right handed. There's a million things to be proud about, the majority of which will make you unique from everyone else. Whatever it is, whoever you are, and however society views you, be proud of you. not because you're gay or French or left handed. Be proud of you. Being gay or straight or bi or any of the other associations is such a small part of a person. Just be proud to be you.
 
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Like it or not the rainbow flag and the entire movement will oneday be regulated to "vintage items" at Urban Outfitters. Very soon it just becomes the norm and they will all be blended into normal society like every other minority group that's fought for acceptance.
 
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Thats contrary to the very concepts you're asking for. You cant be equal, but separate. Thats not equal.

I don't think that's what he's talking about. Group identity is important to historically oppressed minority groups in a way that has never had to be important to the majority.
 
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Great post!
Welcome to the diaspora.
Ethnic groups go through this every 50 years or so, where success allows them to leave the hood.
Where LGBT will be different is LGBT is not hereditary.
A Jewish couple raise (at least ethnically) Jewish kids, LGBT parents raise gay friendly kids.
The LGBT neighborhood was not designed for raising families- it was a family unit unto itself.

50 years from now, homosexuality should have zero stigma.
It should be like that Adam Sandler movie joke- "they're exactly the same as they always were, they just watch different porn".
 
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And that's where my conflict comes in. I am proud of the LGBT group and it's organization and outpouring of love, but to be able to be a group like that, the group has to keep society at arm's length. I know a lot of people in the community that are not ready to gain acceptance by losing individuality.

And that's justified because there's still a lot of strength to be gained from that community that isn't yet available from society at large. This is a result of our innate tendency toward tribalism, there is absolutely safety in numbers but when those numbers get too big it can be perceived as threatening. We're drawn to people that are familiar to us, either in appearance, culture, or shared hardship.

A lot of people will remain resistant to that change because it means leaving the safety of a known group and trusting that society at large will accept them. That's a lot to ask from people that have seen the short end of the stick for a long time, especially when initial "acceptance" often amounted to tokenism and exploitation.

I think it's important to remember that the conflict you're having has been shared by a lot of people throughout history, especially in this country. There's no easy answer to it and it tends to take a pretty long time
 
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Like it or not the rainbow flag and the entire movement will oneday be regulated to "vintage items" at Urban Outfitters. Very soon it just becomes the norm and they will all be blended into normal society like every other minority group that's fought for acceptance.
How many of those minority groups are still fighting for acceptance? Pretty much all of them.
 
How many of those minority groups are still fighting for acceptance? Pretty much all of them.

the level of acceptance they are fighting for goes down from the original basic human rights to other items. I'm not saying they are fully accepted but it does change the need for the movement as well as the participation level of the movement. As an example I'm sure there are plenty of women right now who are fully ok with the way women are treated in society and some that are not and then there are the ones who no matter what you do will never be satisfied. But I can tell you the amount of women involved in pushing that message has gone down drastically over the years.