New, tougher copyright legislation in the works

Pandora said:
We spent all night going to all those places. We finally lucked out at Wally World. They had several empty spots for it on the shelf and only a few copies left. I almost had to choke a beotch who's cart was in my way. Fortunatly for her she moved in time.

But to stay on topic, I being a mostly law abiding citizen have been waiting to see this movie for what seems like forever. I could have downloaded it illegally months ago like other people. However I've never felt comfortable with shoplifting and the like, so I waited. So when I ran to Bestbuy yesterday and they were out of stock I got pretty ticked. You actually play by the rules and you get shafted?! People that do break the rules and download illegally, have the edge. And in this information age that edge is a big advantage. Anyway...it just doesn't seem fair.

I downloaded it a few months ago and burned it to a DVD and watched it. It was great. I still bought a copy when it came out stateside. I see no reason to feel that you are breaking the law when you are downloading a movie that isn't released in the US at that point in time. That's what fansubbed Anime is all about. Getting good shows only available overseas to US viewers, for free.

The US Advent Children has both english and Japanese audio tracks, so you can watch subbed or dubbed.
 
bast_imret said:
I downloaded it a few months ago and burned it to a DVD and watched it. It was great. I still bought a copy when it came out stateside. I see no reason to feel that you are breaking the law when you are downloading a movie that isn't released in the US at that point in time. That's what fansubbed Anime is all about. Getting good shows only available overseas to US viewers, for free.

The US Advent Children has both english and Japanese audio tracks, so you can watch subbed or dubbed.

If it isn't available for you to purchase, and you take it anyway without paying anything to the people who own the rights to it it's still stealing. Just because you pay for it later, doesn't mean you weren't stealing it the first time. Personally, if I was an artist and someone reached out and stole my work from me because I wouldn't sell it to them when they wanted it I would be pretty pissed. And just because you downloaded it, instead of physically taking it from the persons hands doesn't mean it still isn't theft.
 
Pandora said:
If it isn't available for you to purchase, and you take it anyway without paying anything to the people who own the rights to it it's still stealing. Just because you pay for it later, doesn't mean you weren't stealing it the first time. Personally, if I was an artist and someone reached out and stole my work from me because I wouldn't sell it to them when they wanted it I would be pretty pissed. And just because you downloaded it, instead of physically taking it from the persons hands doesn't mean it still isn't theft.

Artist in Japan has a beautiful print out. I know it's coming out stateside at somepoint, but in the meantime, I print out a nice copy, and hang it on my wall. Once it's out to purchase at my local art store, I go out and buy it, and trash the old one with the real one that I paid money for.

What's the problem?
 
bast_imret said:
Artist in Japan has a beautiful print out. I know it's coming out stateside at somepoint, but in the meantime, I print out a nice copy, and hang it on my wall. Once it's out to purchase at my local art store, I go out and buy it, and trash the old one with the real one that I paid money for.

What's the problem?
The problem is you took someone elses property without their consent. Is the concept of theft really that difficult? As I said before, just because you planned on paying for it later, doesn't mean you weren't stealing it the first time you took it.

Am I the only person on the planet that believes that taking something that isn't for sale to you stealing? Lemme check the dictionary.com....

steal ( P )
To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
Synonyms: steal, purloin, filch, snitch, pilfer, cop, 2hook, swipe, lift, pinch
These verbs mean to take another's property wrongfully, often surreptitiously.
 
I think you are staying too black an white in a grey area. We'll just have to disagree on this one.

Edit: but in the case of fansubbed anime, I'd rather download and distribute for free the work of a fansub group (of an anime that is not licensed in the USA yet) than pay for some Bootleg groups copy (ie: all those you see at the Hello cutie stores and such). In either case the original production company is not getting any monetary payback for it, but at least in the case of fansubs, it's kept free (or at least it's supposed to be), as opposed to the bootleggers making money had over fist for cheaply made copies.

Honestly, I see it as they are doing the original production company a favor by distributing their subbed videos. If it weren't for the fansub groups doing what they do for free, there's alot of shows that probably would never be seen in the US. Or garner a big enough fan base here that some corporate exec finally notices it and grabs the US licensing to put on a DVD or Adult Swim.
 
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bast_imret said:
I think you are staying too black an white in a grey area. We'll just have to disagree on this one.

Edit: but in the case of fansubbed anime, I'd rather download and distribute for free the work of a fansub group (of an anime that is not licensed in the USA yet) than pay for some Bootleg groups copy (ie: all those you see at the Hello cutie stores and such). In either case the original production company is not getting any monetary payback for it, but at least in the case of fansubs, it's kept free (or at least it's supposed to be), as opposed to the bootleggers making money had over fist for cheaply made copies.

I can't see how you would view a fansubbed copy of an anime that is only available on Japanese TV as stealing. Honestly, I see it as they are doing the original production company a favor by distributing their subbed videos. If it weren't for the fansub groups doing what they do for free, there's alot of shows that probably would never be seen in the US, or at least garner a big enough fan base here that some corporate exec finally notices it and grabs the US licensing to put on a DVD or Adult Swim.
Black, white, gray, whatever makes it easier for you I guess.... :p

Just because the product isn't licensed in the US doesn't give someone else the right to distribute it without the owners permission. And unless the owner of the product has given the fansub group permission to distribute the movie they are stealing too. So by supporting them you would only be supporting their theft. If the production company beneifts from it in the long run then good for them. But until you compensate the actual owner of the product you are still stealing their property. If they wanted to sell it to you they would. In fact, I'm sure you could have somehow purchased the dvd when you downloaded it. It would have been a bit $$$ to work out all the details, but I'm sure you could have done it legitimatly.

Anyways, I'm not going to post on this anymore. I don't want to hijack djduquet wonderful thread, tho it is along the lines of his topic. But we seem to be the only two discussing this tangent, and we can do that in PMs.
 
Pandora said:
Black, white, gray, whatever makes it easier for you I guess.... :p

Just because the product isn't licensed in the US doesn't give someone else the right to distribute it without the owners permission. And unless the owner of the product has given the fansub group permission to distribute the movie they are stealing too. So by supporting them you would only be supporting their theft. If the production company beneifts from it in the long run then good for them. But until you compensate the actual owner of the product you are still stealing their property. If they wanted to sell it to you they would. In fact, I'm sure you could have somehow purchased the dvd when you downloaded it. It would have been a bit $$$ to work out all the details, but I'm sure you could have done it legitimatly.

Anyways, I'm not going to post on this anymore. I don't want to hijack djduquet wonderful thread, tho it is along the lines of his topic. But we seem to be the only two discussing this tangent, and we can do that in PMs.

k then, one last item. Sure, I might have been able to buy it and import it for some $$, but it would have had no english subtitles or any way for me to understand what they were saying. Take Wonderful Days for example (that I burned you guys a copy of iirc). At that time they were saying that it wasn't going to see a US release, so I DLed it cause I really wanted to see it. None of the foreign versions had any english audio or subtitles. The only way to get a copy with english subtitles was to download a fansub.

Fansubs exist for two reasons:
1. To make the work more enjoyable by providing an understanding of the dialogue
2. To promote awareness of a title so that it will be picked up for domestic release

How is that bad?

Having said that, I am soooo glad that Ubisoft is gettign rid of Starforce. You know it can't be a good thing when it is preventing people who legally buy games from actually playing them. Bout time they dumped that sack of shit software.
 
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If it helps get good anime put out stateside so that Pandora can buy it or rent it from Netflix, then I'm all for it.
 
Most people that download movies are movie lovers and will still go see lots of movies in the theater to get the big screen enjoyment.

If music ever had a reduction in price in the past 10 years then less people would download it.
 
b_sinning said:
Most people that download movies are movie lovers and will still go see lots of movies in the theater to get the big screen enjoyment.
That's great. This thread is about the RIAA and new restrictions on music and the issues regarding records. Movies and the MPAA is something that could use a thread of its own.
 
b_sinning said:
Most people that download movies are movie lovers and will still go see lots of movies in the theater to get the big screen enjoyment.

If music ever had a reduction in price in the past 10 years then less people would download it.

It would also help if they'd stop mass-producing worthless crap.
 
KNYTE said:
It would also help if they'd stop mass-producing worthless crap.
Look at that! A mormon stopped fucking for ten seconds to say something that isn't totally retarted. :heart:
 
djduquet said:
Look at that! A mormon stopped fucking for ten seconds to say something that isn't totally retarted. :heart:

There is a thread that I'm allowing Mormon insults in, carrying it to others will be met with greater retalitory force.