WTF Judge calls for hammer ban after death of Johnathan Thurston's uncle Richard Saunders
- Thread starter G-Shock
- Start date
Syrup Beaver
pants log
There are various laws in numerous states that don't allow you to carry some types of knife. That's really no different. There can be many legitimate reasons to carry a knife. If none of them apply, there's maybe an illegitimate reason.
Syrup Beaver
pants log
Incorrect. In those cases where it's against the law to carry some type of knife, it remains against the law regardless of the reason. I can't carry a knife with a blade greater than three inches in Chicago. Doesn't matter if I can voice a perfectly legitimate reason to need a knife like that on my person to perform my job, it will still be illegal. The problem is that in a situation where one has to prove a legitimate reason for carrying a simple tool - not something designed as a weapon - one is being presumed guilty until proven innocent by providing that legitimate reason. My legitimate reason (this screwdriver makes me feel like a giraffe or this rock gives me sound financial advice) may not be considered legitimate by others yet it doesn't matter, I have every right to carry something that isn't meant to be a weapon as long as I am not threatening another person with it.
Incorrect.
Try reading up some if you want to quote your own laws.
Illinois Case Law:
- "Possession of hunting knife is not a crime; however,
knowingly carrying or possessing dangerous weapon with
intent to use same unlawfully against another constitutes
offense..." (1982)
- "Weapon not listed in statute can become "dangerous weapon"
when it is used in a manner dangerous to well being of
individual threatened, and knife with blade less than 3
inches in length can be dangerous weapon if used in such
manner." (1991)
- "A straight-blade razor did not constitute a per se
dangerous weapon, for purposes of armed violence
charge..." (1987)
- "Walking cane, even if not per se dangerous, was...
transformed by defendant's usage into a dangerous weapon."
(1977)
Try reading up some if you want to quote your own laws.
Illinois Case Law:
- "Possession of hunting knife is not a crime; however,
knowingly carrying or possessing dangerous weapon with
intent to use same unlawfully against another constitutes
offense..." (1982)
- "Weapon not listed in statute can become "dangerous weapon"
when it is used in a manner dangerous to well being of
individual threatened, and knife with blade less than 3
inches in length can be dangerous weapon if used in such
manner." (1991)
- "A straight-blade razor did not constitute a per se
dangerous weapon, for purposes of armed violence
charge..." (1987)
- "Walking cane, even if not per se dangerous, was...
transformed by defendant's usage into a dangerous weapon."
(1977)
I do know my laws. I am not allowed carry a knife with a blade greater than three inches IN CHICAGO regardless of whatever legitimate reason I can provide. Did you completely gloss over the part that says "when it is used in a manner dangerous to well being of individual threatened"? In the circumstances described by you and harold merely being in possession of hammers and rocks and screwdrivers - not threatening anyone with them, just having them on you - constitutes an illegal act unless you can provide a legitimate reason for carrying it.
That is not the case in anything you quoted. Perhaps you should actually read the cases in question and realize that they were all in reference to assault charges, not arrests on possession of blades.
since you got those quotes from knife-expert maybe you should scroll up a touch and refer to the actual statutes in question on top of realizing that chicago has additional laws that apply on top of state law
That is not the case in anything you quoted. Perhaps you should actually read the cases in question and realize that they were all in reference to assault charges, not arrests on possession of blades.
since you got those quotes from knife-expert maybe you should scroll up a touch and refer to the actual statutes in question on top of realizing that chicago has additional laws that apply on top of state law
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Oh and
Illinois Criminal Code 720 ILCS 5/24-1. Unlawful Use of
Weapons. (a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use
of weapons when he knowingly... (2) Carries or possesses
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, a
dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto,
broken bottle or other piece of glass... or any other
dangerous or deadly weapon of like character...
So Illinois can use judgement about what is a dangerous weapon of like character, which could, in certain circumstances, be a screwdriver or a hammer.
Illinois Criminal Code 720 ILCS 5/24-1. Unlawful Use of
Weapons. (a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use
of weapons when he knowingly... (2) Carries or possesses
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, a
dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto,
broken bottle or other piece of glass... or any other
dangerous or deadly weapon of like character...
So Illinois can use judgement about what is a dangerous weapon of like character, which could, in certain circumstances, be a screwdriver or a hammer.
OK, here's a dare for you. Get dressed in your best hoody and off the hip pants tonight. Then visit some bars with a hammer in your hand. See how long it is before someone calls the cops in your utopian world. My guess is you're going to have to come up with an explanation of why you're carrying a hammer. I'de advise you not to say that it makes you feel like a giraffe.
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Carries or possesses
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another,
as opposed to having to provide a legitimate reason for carrying it. the state has to prove that I had unlawful intent, not the other way around
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another,
as opposed to having to provide a legitimate reason for carrying it. the state has to prove that I had unlawful intent, not the other way around
and as long as I don't threaten anyone with the hammer or commit any other unrelated crimes, the police will have absolutely nothing to charge me with and will have to let me go on my way
that's what happens when you live in a society that puts the burden of proof on the state, not on the accused
First one to shout has pretty much lost the argument. Care to show me your absolute 'no blade over 3 inches' law? Take your time, they might implement one while I'm waiting.
Which is what generally happens over here unless the police have something on you.
they may but I will have legal recourse. without something to charge me with any half decent lawyer will not only get me my hammer back but a small settlement out of it as well
it wasn't shouting
I was showing you the part that you seemed to have ignored(b) A category I weapon is a [firearm or] a knife with a blade at least 3 inches in length, dagger, dirk, switchblade knife, stiletto, or any other deadly or dangerous weapon of like character.
there is no exception for "legitimate reasons"
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...hapterID=53&SeqStart=78200000&SeqEnd=78600000
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That's the part of Illinois State law that defines whether or not you are 'carrying a dangerous weapon'. That is not per se agianst state law. Again,show me your absolute 'no blade over 3 inches' law? Clue - check out utility knives and the provisions for carrying them. Then tell me your 3 inch rule is an absolute.
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yes it is against state law. continue reading the whole damn thing
on top of that
http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Illinois/chicago_il/municipalcodeofchicago?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:chicago_il
(f) No person shall carry concealed on or about his person a or dagger, dirk, stiletto, bowie knife, commando knife, any blade of which is released by a spring mechanism, including knives known as “switch- blades” or any other type or kind of knife, any blade of which is more than two and one-half inches in length, ordinary razor or other dangerous weapon except that no person 18 years of age or under shall carry concealed on or about his person, any knife, the blade of which is two inches in length or longer.
so 2 inches is the max for someone under 18, 2.5 for someone over 18. no legitimate reason for carrying this knife exludes me from the law
on top of that
http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Illinois/chicago_il/municipalcodeofchicago?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:chicago_il
(f) No person shall carry concealed on or about his person a or dagger, dirk, stiletto, bowie knife, commando knife, any blade of which is released by a spring mechanism, including knives known as “switch- blades” or any other type or kind of knife, any blade of which is more than two and one-half inches in length, ordinary razor or other dangerous weapon except that no person 18 years of age or under shall carry concealed on or about his person, any knife, the blade of which is two inches in length or longer.
so 2 inches is the max for someone under 18, 2.5 for someone over 18. no legitimate reason for carrying this knife exludes me from the law
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Ok you obviously can't do research, I'll save you the trouble.
This, BTW IS Chicago Minicipal Ordinance rather thanh state law. Utility knifes BTW can have blades longer than 2 inches, which would otherwise be prohibited to under 18s.
c) No person under the age of 18 shall carry a utility knife on his person, or in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle. This prohibition shall not apply to a minor using a utility knife for a lawful purpose (1) in his residence, under the immediate supervision of his parent or legal guardian; or (2) in a classroom, at the direction and under the immediate supervision of his teacher; or (3) in his place of lawful employment, at the direction and under the immediate supervision of his adult employer or an adult supervisor. For purpose of clause (3) of this subsection (c), "place of employment" includes an employer's motor vehicle used to transport the employer's tools and equipment, as well as a site where the employer is performing any lawful work
Notice how, one the one hand, there is a prohibition against the carrying of a utility knife, closely followed by exceptions for specific lawful purposes. Walk away from this argument with what little dignity you still have left my friend.
This, BTW IS Chicago Minicipal Ordinance rather thanh state law. Utility knifes BTW can have blades longer than 2 inches, which would otherwise be prohibited to under 18s.
c) No person under the age of 18 shall carry a utility knife on his person, or in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle. This prohibition shall not apply to a minor using a utility knife for a lawful purpose (1) in his residence, under the immediate supervision of his parent or legal guardian; or (2) in a classroom, at the direction and under the immediate supervision of his teacher; or (3) in his place of lawful employment, at the direction and under the immediate supervision of his adult employer or an adult supervisor. For purpose of clause (3) of this subsection (c), "place of employment" includes an employer's motor vehicle used to transport the employer's tools and equipment, as well as a site where the employer is performing any lawful work
Notice how, one the one hand, there is a prohibition against the carrying of a utility knife, closely followed by exceptions for specific lawful purposes. Walk away from this argument with what little dignity you still have left my friend.
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