ITT: You explain "God" to me

zengirl said:
I think what I respect most about you is that you do hold your faith in high esteem yet you don't use your faith to look down your nose at others. I come across a lot of folks who see Christianity as a club, and you're either in, or you're a pledge or you're out. If you're not in and you're not a pledge then you're somehow not good enough to be given the time of day.

The most contradictory thing that I've found in my experience is that information is sparse unless you claim to be a pledge or do the research on your own, which is really hard!
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Well thank you very much, that means a lot to me.

I guess because although I was raised in church (as a younger kid) as I got older and could make my own decisions, I stopped going and my parents respected that. They wanted me to make my faith my own, not theirs, or anyone elses. So sometimes I think that because I wasnt a brain washed conservative Christian, I have an advantage. I've always told myself the most affective way I can minister to someone is being who I am.

I am me. I'm not perfect, I make MANY misteaks and I certainly don't see myself any better then anyone else. If anything I see others around me as much higher then I.

And you are right, as much as christians talk about "witnessing" or "evangelising" to the lost, they aren't very open to giving the information they have away. So I compltely understand where you are coming from there.

In no way do I want to push my beliefs in your face, but if you are looking for answers (or just an interresting read in general) I suggest picking up C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, or The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel.

Both books are amazing. Mere Christianity is a classic, and Lewis is a phenominal writer.
But I think you might enjoy The Case for Christ (there is 3 in the series). Basically Strobel was an athiest journalist attempting to prove christianity wrong. But ended up in his research, discovering that what he was attempting to prove wasn't provable (good engrish)


Amazon.com said:
Amazon.com
The Case for Christ records Lee Strobel's attempt to "determine if there's credible evidence that Jesus of Nazareth really is the Son of God." The book consists primarily of interviews between Strobel (a former legal editor at the Chicago Tribune) and biblical scholars such as Bruce Metzger. Each interview is based on a simple question, concerning historical evidence (for example, "Can the Biographies of Jesus Be Trusted?"), scientific evidence, ("Does Archaeology Confirm or Contradict Jesus' Biographies?"), and "psychiatric evidence" ("Was Jesus Crazy When He Claimed to Be the Son of God?"). Together, these interviews compose a case brief defending Jesus' divinity, and urging readers to reach a verdict of their own.
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zengirl said:
You can think what you want, and interpret words in your own way, this is the very same free will which makes religion so diverse. However to sit there and claim to know my intentions as anything other than what I've stated is pompus and presumptuous.

I'm looking for information, you're looking for a fight.
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Perhaps glass is better suited to describing how transparent your guise of discussion is when this thread is obviously partisan, opinionated garbage. Take a look at this thread as a third person and tell me I'm wrong. You're just trying to convince people that they're wrong and you're right. But that's not new when it comes to threads about religion.
 
Fuxx I really :heart: you. I think you're one of the nicest people on the internets.

As a person who didn't grow up in a faith, with an inherent lack of bible school, church leadership or any sort of explaination at all whatsoever, I find that in the pursuit of knowledge questions arise, the expression of questions is interpreted as an attack (case in point this thread :rolleyes: ) and rather than receiving explainations one is met with defensive or offensive comments and still no information.

It's like credit... If you don't have it, you can't get it.
 
Galen said:
Perhaps glass is better suited to describing how transparent your guise of discussion is when this thread is obviously partisan, opinionated garbage. Take a look at this thread as a third person and tell me I'm wrong. You're just trying to convince people that they're wrong and you're right. But that's not new when it comes to threads about religion.
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You're wrong.

There, now will you please shut up and let us get back to the topic?
 
Both books are amazing. Mere Christianity is a classic, and Lewis is a phenominal writer.
But I think you might enjoy The Case for Christ (there is 3 in the series). Basically Strobel was an athiest journalist attempting to prove christianity wrong. But ended up in his research, discovering that what he was attempting to prove wasn't provable (good engrish)
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My brother gave me A Case For Faith.
 
zengirl said:
Fuxx I really :heart: you. I think you're one of the nicest people on the internets.
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Aww shucks :fly: I'm even nicer in real life! Maybe that's why FB is marrying me (hello 9 days) :omy:

But seriously, if you ever have questions not matter how small or stupid they might sound, don;t hesitate to ask. In my quest for knowledge, I got into a bunch of other religions and educated myself in those areas too. So I'm not just educated in teh Jesus department :D
 
zengirl said:
My brother gave me A Case For Faith.
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Haven't read that one, but I am quite sure a Case for Christ was his first. I would read that one first. I read it before becoming a "christian" and it really answered a lot of questions I had. And it's just quite interresting because unlike most christian books, its not one sided ;)
 
*Fuxx Burger* said:
Aww shucks :fly: I'm even nicer in real life! Maybe that's why FB is marrying me (hello 9 days) :omy:

But seriously, if you ever have questions not matter how small or stupid they might sound, don;t hesitate to ask. In my quest for knowledge, I got into a bunch of other religions and educated myself in those areas too. So I'm not just educated in teh Jesus department :D
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;) this is why you rock... and why your opinion will weigh most heavily with me. I don't think it's wrong to entertain curiosity and explore other faiths and philosophies because it's been my experience that for the most part, ritual and tradition aside, most religions are basically saying the same thing, just in different ways. In that sense one can't sit there and say that one is wrong and one is right (which is why it does piss me off when someone thinks that's what I'm doing) The thing that separates Christianity is the Bible and Jesus. I can sit here and read the bible but I'm not going to get anyone else's interpretation (and interpreting the thing is hard!) I can go to church and hear someone's interpetation but there's no open forum for discussion. In order to do so one must invest a major chunk of time into bible study and class and without going through a baptism and membership, being welcomed into these folds is tough stuff.
 
It's too bad you didnt live near me. My church in Abbotsford would have loved you. They were very much a post modern thinking church, and they didn't want christians coming to their church, they wanted to talk to the athiests, pegans, you name it. Thats where they felt the good discussion was. If you ever get the chance to check out a post modern christian church I highly suggest it. Sounds like its something you would be into.

Unfortunatly most seeker sensitive churches (or most conservative christian churches) are exactly as you mentioned above, unless you are a member you can't get into their bible studies and classes. So thas definetly tough.

The problem is with most christians I've come a cross Zengirl, is that they don't want to answer a non beliver or seekers questions because it makes them take a good look at what they believe and WHY they believe it. Unfortunatly a lot of christians are spoon fed what they believe from the pulpit instead of searching it out for themselves. Now don't get me wrong there is definetly a need for pastors and teachers in the church, but I sometimes dont think that the churches encourage their congregation to explore for themselves. They go to church Sunday mornings, hear what the Pastor has to say and go home with that, and never think about it again adn assume its the right thing. And THAT's why many christians don't like to talk to non believers- it's a reality check in their own lives, and they don't want to be wrong.

I remember one of the hardest time's I've ever had with my parents was about 2 years ago when I was constantly challenging my pastor, and what was being preaches. So much, that I decided to attend a year of bible college to get some answers myself. I didn't go to a bible college associated with my church's denomination, I went with a denomination completely opposite of what my church tends to believe. I wanted answers.

But beware, even if you do find the answers you are looking for and chose a religion that you believe to be the truth, the questions still will never stop. I am constantly asking questions and challenging what I am taught. And I highly encourage you to do the same.
 
*Fuxx Burger* said:
But beware, even if you do find the answers you are looking for and chose a religion that you believe to be the truth, the questions still will never stop. I am constantly asking questions and challenging what I am taught. And I highly encourage you to do the same.
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But I think this is essential to spiritual growth... If you don't keep asking questions and seeking answers then you're stunted and what is life but an ongoing search for information and enlightenment?

I've never heard of post modern christian church before, around here things are very midwestern, very conventional and conservative. I will for sure look into it. I know SchmilK's parents have become disillusioned with the Catholic church and have begun a search for a new church. This may be something worth looking into.
 
zengirl said:
You can think what you want, and interpret words in your own way, this is the very same free will which makes religion so diverse. However to sit there and claim to know my intentions as anything other than what I've stated is pompus and presumptuous.

I'm looking for information, you're looking for a fight.
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Zengirl - I am with you 100% on this one . As a 'third person' viewing this entire thread (took forever to read each line) I see this thread as a 'question' for information. I didn't see you get nasty or attacking - just asking more and more questions.

I am very entertained by this thread. I have also learned a great deal. My ONLY purpose for joining UF is to learn. I am learning about human interaction between the members that's for sure. I learn about people's opinions on many topics - music, gaming, gas prices , whatever. I think my thread on 'being single' is just like your thread here. You gave some back ground and asked a question which stemmed from how you view something. I took it that you just wanted people to argue their opinion on the topic - no big deal.

I am not religious (my mom was an atheist) , but she allowed us to make up are own opinions on things. I personnal am religious ignorant. So I cannot argue for or against god\jesus\ect. . All I know to be true is I keep trying to read the bible (many of them, new test, old test , one on mass and how to read the bible) and I CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It makes NO SENSE to my logic mind. Of course I have to start at the very beginning and I can't get passed everyone begotten every one. So that's just me - chemicals and evolution make much more sense. For me it just has to make sense - empirical evidence.
 
gottoys? said:
Of course I have to start at the very beginning and I can't get passed everyone begotten every one.
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:lol: ME TOO!!! I collect bibles of all faiths and I've actually sat down with 4 or 5 around me and read passage by passage, comparing them and taking notes, and I get to the getting and begotten and I lose it.

:lol:
 
zengirl said:
But I think this is essential to spiritual growth... If you don't keep asking questions and seeking answers then you're stunted and what is life but an ongoing search for information and enlightenment?

I've never heard of post modern christian church before, around here things are very midwestern, very conventional and conservative. I will for sure look into it. I know SchmilK's parents have become disillusioned with the Catholic church and have begun a search for a new church. This may be something worth looking into.
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this was my church in Abbotsford
www.vintage242church.com

also another one to check out is
www.mashillchurch.org

Mars Hill was kinda the first church to start the whole post modern church movement... I haven't been there but I've tried (got lost every time)

Do some searching on the internet, you'd be surprised what you can find. I've also got a book with some churches in it (unfortunatly its packed away with my stuff at FB's place) but I might be able to find osmething in your area.
 
I don't try to explain God. In my life I've gone from a certainty that God exists and 'micromanages' (love that term!) everything to not being sure at all.
 
That's were I have been 'not sure at all' ...

I read alittle buddism and thought that was very interesting but then I analyzed that he sat under the tree to long and was Hallucinating.

Someone please tell me why there are SO MANY religions and churches? This is not an argument - I genuinely want to know. Just go to the NC mountains there are just about as many churces as there are houses.
 
wr3kt said:
It's not sarcasm, it's the why should people have to explain what and why they believe in something.
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I understand. I think it's more like "what the hell else can we talk about" though.
 
gottoys? said:
That's were I have been 'not sure at all' ...

I read alittle buddism and thought that was very interesting but then I analyzed that he sat under the tree to long and was Hallucinating.

Someone please tell me why there are SO MANY religions and churches? This is not an argument - I genuinely want to know. Just go to the NC mountains there are just about as many churces as there are houses.
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Because not everyone believes the same thing.
 
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