Ike Was Right v.Andy Rooney

fly

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Oct 1, 2004
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This is a good read, and hits the nail on the head imho...

I'm not really clear how much a billion dollars is but the United States — our United States — is spending $5.6 billion a month fighting this war in Iraq that we never should have gotten into.

We still have 139,000 soldiers in Iraq today.

Almost 2,000 Americans have died there. For what?

Now we have the hurricanes to pay for. One way our government pays for a lot of things is by borrowing from countries like China.

Another way the government is planning to pay for the war and the hurricane damage is by cutting spending for things like Medicare prescriptions, highway construction, farm payments, AMTRAK, National Public Radio and loans to graduate students. Do these sound like the things you'd like to cut back on to pay for Iraq?

I'll tell you where we ought to start saving: on our bloated military establishment.

We're paying for weapons we'll never use.

No other Country spends the kind of money we spend on our military. Last year Japan spent $42 billion. Italy spent $28 billion, Russia spent only $19 billion. The United States spent $455 billion.

We have 8,000 tanks for example. One Abrams tank costs 150 times as much as a Ford station wagon.

We have more than 10,000 nuclear weapons — enough to destroy all of mankind.

We're spending $200 million a year on bullets alone. That's a lot of target practice. We have 1,155,000 enlisted men and women and 225,000 officers. One officer to tell every five enlisted soldier what to do. We have 40,000 colonels alone and 870 generals.

We had a great commander in WWII, Dwight Eisenhower. He became President and on leaving the White House in 1961, he said this: “We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. …"

Well, Ike was right. That's just what’s happened.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/30/60minutes/main892398.shtml

This nation for better/for worse has turned into a war machine that seemingly can't be shut off. Agree or disagree?
 
"Another way the government is planning to pay for the war and the hurricane damage is by cutting spending for things like Medicare prescriptions, highway construction, farm payments, AMTRAK, National Public Radio and loans to graduate students. Do these sound like the things you'd like to cut back on to pay for Iraq?"

Not cutting it for Iraq, but funding should be cut for all of those things except for Medicare and student loans.
 
andy rooney went to highschool at the military school I went to for a few years...albany academy..do you know of it chikken?

I think he's right
 
fly said:
This nation for better/for worse has turned into a war machine that seemingly can't be shut off. Agree or disagree?

I think that certain presidents use the US power in this way - exploiting it.

I feel it's right to stockpile ammo and such for protection of our country and people. But I did not agree with jumping into a war unfounded and now it is proven to be unfounded. This war made the US look like a bully and not a superpower able to make rational decisions.
 
I don't think we overspend on our military. I think we overspend on foreign aid and partisan politics.

Having more hardware than we "need" is only wise, considering we could be attacked at any time by both China and North Korea, probably over Taiwan if it does happen.

And what those figures don't say is that much of that spending goes towards the development of newer, better weapons and military technology to ensure we always have the edge and the best toys available. If the shit ever does hit the fan, I want to know that our troops are more advanced than our enemies, and that we have 10,000 nukes watching our backs. Fuck what other countries think, or how they feel about it. America first. This is my home.

Take a gander at Russia, for example. 20 billion dollars a year, and yet countless troops are STILL going unpaid, in the 21st freaking century. Nuclear weapons are deteriorating in locations guarded by 4 or 5 men. Their navy is literally falling apart, and their army is generally using the same crap it was using 30 and 40 years ago.

Is that what you want?
 
I say he's bringing some facts to the table that many dont know and if they are truely unstretched facts then I am appalled more than I should be.
 
Sarcasmo said:
I don't think we overspend on our military. I think we overspend on foreign aid and partisan politics.

Having more hardware than we "need" is only wise, considering we could be attacked at any time by both China and North Korea, probably over Taiwan if it does happen.

And what those figures don't say is that much of that spending goes towards the development of newer, better weapons and military technology to ensure we always have the edge and the best toys available. If the shit ever does hit the fan, I want to know that our troops are more advanced than our enemies, and that we have 10,000 nukes watching our backs. Fuck what other countries think, or how they feel about it. America first. This is my home.

Take a gander at Russia, for example. 20 billion dollars a year, and yet countless troops are STILL going unpaid, in the 21st freaking century. Nuclear weapons are deteriorating in locations guarded by 4 or 5 men. Their navy is literally falling apart, and their army is generally using the same crap it was using 30 and 40 years ago.

Is that what you want?


you are confusing being properly armed/prepared with having the whole country be essentially governed and controlled by military/industrial collusion...vast difference there
 
Instead of bitching about this issue, I did something about it! I didn't join the army! Instead of joining the "Big Green Money Eating Machine (The Army)" I sit at home and smoke pot and eat cheese-its. They're fucking good as hell and it's way more affordable to eat a box of these for dinner than buying a value meal at McDonald's. That's right bitches. Speaking of bitches, I got just my girlfriend pregnant, it's our third child. Big deal, I'll figure out a way to pay for it, maybe I'll start selling some of this shit I'm smoking. I bet I could move a few dime bags to my oldest son's friends, those little shits believe anything I say. Anyways, fuck Iraq, fuck the war. Those morons don't know what they're doing over there.
 
why_ask_why said:
you are confusing being properly armed/prepared with having the whole country be essentially governed and controlled by military/industrial collusion...vast difference there

The U.S. is not in danger at the moment of being overrun by it's military. Our military is comprised primarily of 18-23 year olds. 90% of those are NOT career soldiers. They serve their tours, get money for college, and quit. Where is the threat?
 
Sarcasmo said:
And what those figures don't say is that much of that spending goes towards the development of newer, better weapons and military technology to ensure we always have the edge and the best toys available. If the shit ever does hit the fan, I want to know that our troops are more advanced than our enemies, and that we have 10,000 nukes watching our backs. Fuck what other countries think, or how they feel about it. America first. This is my home.
Want to know why this is so much higher than it used to be?

Resulting from of all the gun bans, arms manufacturers are no longer able to spend the money on their own on development (at least on the scale they used to) because of the lack of sales to citizens.
 
Sarcasmo said:
The U.S. is not in danger at the moment of being overrun by it's military. Our military is comprised primarily of 18-23 year olds. 90% of those are NOT career soldiers. They serve their tours, get money for college, and quit. Where is the threat?

you are missing the point entirely...the threat isn't in the arms or men, it's in the backroom power hoarding and shady deals by the military/industrial complex who are ultimately controlling the country...that is the point andy was making unless I read it wrong
 
why_ask_why said:
you are missing the point entirely...the threat isn't in the arms or men, it's in the backroom power hoarding and shady deals by the military/industrial complex who are ultimately controlling the country...that is the point andy was making unless I read it wrong

No actually I think you're right now that I've reread the last paragraph. But I think this is inevitable when you take an economic superultramegapowerhouse and give it an administration that's obsessed with playing cowboys and indians. Take a look at what happened to both Germany and Japan. Both were economically huge at the onset of WWII, and both became vast threats when their war machines took over. I think that's what Eisenhower was drawing his comment from since he had first hand experience with both.

On the other hand, how do you administer a massive military stockpile and weapons development programs with a smaller military organization (i.e. by culling some of that war machine)? Without sacrificing some of your defensive capabilities at the same time?
 
Sarcasmo said:
On the other hand, how do you administer a massive military stockpile and weapons development programs with a smaller military organization (i.e. by culling some of that war machine)? Without sacrificing some of your defensive capabilities at the same time?
You nuke every other country out there until you don't need as strong of a defense.
 
Even though I think the threadstarter has the actual issue of the article on his mind less than he's looking for an opening to advance his own opinion by having people agree with him bit by bit...

Nationalising the arms industry would take away any problems with meddlesome power hungry private businesses. It's a rather recent thing moving defense jobs into the private sector where before we had federal owned armories that obviously werent run for profit.

I don't think we spend near enough on the military, or at least the parts of it that matter. Go to your local National Guard barracks and tell them they have far too much money to play with :lol:
 
FlamingGlory said:
I don't think we spend near enough on the military, or at least the parts of it that matter. Go to your local National Guard barracks and tell them they have far too much money to play with :lol:

you are looking at this as if it were "trickle down economics" which is proven to not be very effective as shown to us by Ronald Reagan...there's tons of money out there in the military branches but it doesn't seem to "trickle down" too well
 
why_ask_why said:
you are looking at this as if it were "trickle down economics" which is proven to not be very effective as shown to us by Ronald Reagan...there's tons of money out there in the military branches but it doesn't seem to "trickle down" too well
Obviously. We spend billions researching things that will never work, or rather giving billions to private companies to research things that they know will never work. When you just cut spending vis a vis changing the budget or earmarking money for other purposes the only thing that will get cut is their largest and from a 'business' perspective most liquid assest, manpower.

If you muster out a few infantry divisions you free up tons of training money in favour of your pet technological project for the company that will be funding your retirement. :fly:
 
FlamingGlory said:
Obviously. We spend billions researching things that will never work, or rather giving billions to private companies to research things that they know will never work. When you just cut spending vis a vis changing the budget or earmarking money for other purposes the only thing that will get cut is their largest and from a 'business' perspective most liquid assest, manpower.

If you muster out a few infantry divisions you free up tons of training money in favour of your pet technological project for the company that will be funding your retirement. :fly:
just to make this clear: do you believe it's the private industries fault, or the retard government employees?