Ontopic I thought that ....

Successful people should supp ort the government that allows them to flourish. Nobody argues for the illusion of safety. What good is illusion? We want security. You share this same need and it's obvious. You view your taxes paid to the purportedly 'useless' government as a drain on your financial security. We manifest our security needs differently I suppose. I realize that if I shit on the poor and demoralized masses long enough, they'll probably kill me. By supporting them, I'm supporting my own lifestyle and yours.

Before the new deal and the Great Society, who helped the poor? Churches and other civic minded groups. They can do it a whole lot more efficiently then the federal or state governments could even hope to the job. Nor would you have people on welfare for life or for Barbra Streisand reasons. America is the most generous nation on earth. Even if some of the progressives are stingy with their own money. Gores, Clintons et al
 
Before the new deal and the Great Society, who helped the poor? Churches and other civic minded groups. They can do it a whole lot more efficiently then the federal or state governments could even hope to the job. Nor would you have people on welfare for life or for Barbra Streisand reasons. America is the most generous nation on earth. Even if some of the progressives are stingy with their own money. Gores, Clintons et al



So wait. Just to be clear, you're arguing that the social welfare avenues of the 19th century were more effective than those today.

That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. What you said is almost Glenn Beckable. The Industrial Revolution (19th century) encompasses the most severe reduction in living standards this country has ever seen. It's the second largest social injustice in U.S. history next to slavery.
 
So wait. Just to be clear, you're arguing that the social welfare avenues of the 19th century were more effective than those today.

That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. What you said is almost Glenn Beckable. The Industrial Revolution (19th century) encompasses the most severe reduction in living standards this country has ever seen. It's the second largest social injustice in U.S. history next to slavery.

"I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." — Benjamin Franklin

Considering the standard of living the average "poor" person has in this country compared to the rest of the world. They live a whole lot better.
 
Consider that as brilliant as Franklin was, he is no longer relevant on social matters. There are no scientific laws when it comes to societal issues. Being poor in an agrarian culture is not like being poor today.

Ara, I'm sorry that your political party expired in the early 1800's. You might want to update. And stop attacking the Federalists. They're gone too.
 
"I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no Form of Government but what may be a Blessing to the People if well-administred; and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administred for a Course of Years and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other."
— Benjamin Franklin

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." -- Thomas Jefferson
 
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So the Industrial Revolution was a social negative? Huh.

At the time, yes. That's not to take away from the important role the Industrial Revolution had Europe and the U.S. It did a lot for urbanization, science, and ultimately civil rights.
 
"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." -- Benjamin Franklin

I don't think you understand what Franklin is saying. Poor people aren't happy. That's why they commit the most crimes and are most likely to be strung out on drugs and behave violently. It's a hard reality to face -- even today.
 
I don't think you understand what Franklin is saying. Poor people aren't happy. That's why they commit the most crimes and are most likely to be strung outlueless in on drugs and behave violently. It's a hard reality to face -- even today.

As usual, you're Clueless in Seattle. Wealth has nothing to do with one's happiness. You have to work for your dreams/happiness. They don't come on a gold platter. By your logic Franklin should have gone on drugs and committed a crime spree when he landed in Philadelphia. That quote goes with this one.

Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise. — Benjamin Franklin
 
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I don't think you understand what Franklin is saying. Poor people aren't happy. That's why they commit the most crimes and are most likely to be strung out on drugs and behave violently. It's a hard reality to face -- even today.

Rich and poor people are both equally unhappy. It's not the money, its the life one chooses to live. You want to live with a wife beater, take a job at McD's or feel hollow inside because your friends use you for money? Doesn't matter on the $$ ladder. :)
 
WTF?

Happiness is relative to each individual. For some, wealth has a direct effect on their happiness..
 
As usual, you're Clueless in Seattle. Wealth has nothing to do with one's happiness. You have to work for your dreams/happiness. They don't come on a gold platter. By your logic Franklin should have gone on drugs and committed a crime spree when he landed in Philadelphia. That quote goes with this one.

Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise. — Benjamin Franklin

No. Ben Franklin lived in the 18th century. These are not comparable issues.

Nobody here is advocating dreams on a gold platter.
 
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