Holy S**t Bush Vetoes something!

ceiling fly said:
You can't really be serious. My spidey senses are tingling with sarcasm. Help me out here.
No, he is right. There havent been any 'breakthroughs' as a result of embryonic stem cell research. Most of the actual good has been done with adult cells or umbilical cords.

That doesnt, of course, mean that banning the research into what embryonic cells are good for is a good idea.

ETA: Wait read wrong post.

Um... Ignore this.
 
I think someone injected monkey stem cells in drool. That would explain the hairiness and propensity for flinging poo.
 
FlyNavy said:
While that opens the door for government research it's a long ways away from saying it's mandated. In either case it all depends on whether or not people believe this is for the general welfare of the people.

Since when has this been about what the unwashed and uneducated believe? Technically the precedent for this is codified in common law:

"[t]he clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States." (US v Butler, 297 U.S. 1, 66, 67)

Taxation of course being limited for the national, not local, welfare. This is the traditional view of Alexander Hamilton in the Report on Manufactures. Unfortunately another case came along and set a horrible precedent for what exactly constitutes 'welfare.'

'Welfare' as defined in Helvering v Davis, 301 U.S. 619, 640, is unfortunately the law:

"[T]he line must still be drawn between one welfare and another, between particular and general. Where this shall be placed cannot be known through a formula in advance of the event. There is a middle ground, or certainly a penumbra, in which discretion is at large. The discretion, however, is not confided to the courts. The discretion belongs to Congress, unless the choice is clearly wrong, a display of arbitrary power, not an exercise of judgment."

The red part clearly states the Congress gets to decide solely what Congress spends money on and what taxes they lay. The only way that they could concievably be shot down in court in by laying a general tax and spending it on something very specific and local.

This is why public schools get federal money. This is why every state has a alcohol purchase age of 21. I can go on and on...
 
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Arátoeldar said:
Completely. Read the article that I linked to and its' sources.
I looked over the article, but didn't read it all. Of course the work on adult stem cell research works better now, we've been doing it for decades. Embryonic stem cell research is relatively new, but doesn't have the limits associated with adult stem cells.

Are you aware of how many viable embryos are thrown away every day from fertility clinics? Why not try them out and see what science can do with them?

edit: Okay, that guy is an idiot. His logic is that because there are no clinical trials for ESC, that it's bunk science? Come on. What if they told Fleming that he couldn't get any money to research antibiotics because there was no solid proof they worked? jesus.
 
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