GAY Gender Fluid
- Thread starter Petunia
- Start date
well, no. not everyone's part of a marginalized group. at least not dealing with any significant marginalization
straight, white, male, middle class American? atheists are a bit marginalized but very few suffer any kind of active discrimination. besides, that's a choice whereas ones gender identity, sexual orientation, or race aren't. there are plenty of people who suffer more for who they are than I suffer for what I believe
No one is saying fuck it, oh well. Talking about it requires context for the conversation. You can't teach people to be nice to each other about all of these differences by pretending none of them have names.
Amstel
The Hoarse Whisperer
the individuals personal definition of 'significant' determines that. & for all practical purposes, it's 'fluid.'
There are plenty of options to be marginalized for every one of the items that you listed, and more. However, I think we're moving the goalposts here.
Also, atheism isn't a choice.
the likelihood of any of those traits experiencing marginalization is very small compared to people who don't fit the normal archetype that american culture has been catered toward for two hundred years
of course atheism is a choice. if you lived in a bubble where you had never heard of any religions and you weren't influenced by a culture that has a de facto religion then sure you could say it's not a choice. but at some point in your life you must have drawn the conclusion that none of the religious stuff was for you and thus chose to either remain without religion or leave it, whichever applies
thintoast
Mayosapien
Straight white middle class American males are becoming more and more ostracized though, due to "political correctness". Instead of promoting other races and genders, society is bringing the white man down to their level. So instead of everyone having the same advantages, society would rather make everyone have the same disadvantages. That's what is happening.
thintoast
Mayosapien
when I say significant I mean widespread. what happens to an individual can be very significant even if it's not happening to the entire group. but per capita people who are straight, white, middle class American males will experience those problems less often than pretty much anyone not fitting that mold
So you're shitting on my marginalization because it doesn't meet your bar. Good work.
I could and I'd be arguing against a lot of pretty well established science that makes it pretty clear neither sexual orientation nor gender are conscious decisions
Mean Mr. Mustard
Always shouts out something obscene
all I know is that if you get your gender fluid on the sofa, you better clean it up
So you're shitting on my marginalization because it doesn't meet your bar. Good work.
i clarified for amstel
it's not shitting on whatever you personally have faced, it's pointing out that the odds of someone who fits into our mold is going to face marginalization is very low
thintoast
Mayosapien
And in some cases, nether is religion. I could tell you stories of feeling like an outcast in a Lutheran school as a child in the 4th grade because I didn't feel like I belonged in a school full of believers. But that won't help your argument and you probably don't want to hear it anyway.
of course it would help my argument, it's absolutely applicable
but now that you're an adult you can make the choice not to believe in the religion. someone who gets indoctrinated deeply into it might have less of a choice as a child
I think that's a horrible thing to say, but we've gotten off track. Building new walls of identity helps no one. Defining what's different about people brings out the most disgusting parts of humanity. Think of the greater good of them not existing at all.
how is that a horrible thing to say?
they're not walls of identity. again, you keep saying that they shouldn't exist but they fucking do. dude wants to get married to another dude, he's not building a wall of identity to yell to the world that he's gay, the world was telling him "NO you are different and thus can't do what normal people do"
Identity is not a wall that separates people, it's a context that helps us understand each other better.
they're not walls of identity. again, you keep saying that they shouldn't exist but they fucking do. dude wants to get married to another dude, he's not building a wall of identity to yell to the world that he's gay, the world was telling him "NO you are different and thus can't do what normal people do"
Identity is not a wall that separates people, it's a context that helps us understand each other better.
I don't know how better to detail that I completely disagree with this. That's not what "political correctness" is and what you think is happening is imaginary
Amstel
The Hoarse Whisperer
thintoast
Mayosapien
It wasn't a choice.
You want the story, here you go...
In my childhood, I grew up in a household of religious folk. My family was religious as were my neighbors and their kids. Starting in preschool, I went to a Lutheran school. Preschool through 6th grade. A private Lutheran school. Starting in 2nd grade we were required to memorize a bible verse every week. Every Wednesday was church day. We'd take an hour in the morning, file up and walk to the church on school grounds, sit there listening to the sermon, sing Jesus loves me this I know, and go back to class. Everyone believed in god. Except me. Even in 4th grade which would make me what? 9? 10? something like that... even then I knew something was wrong. I didn't belong at this school. I didn't believe the things that they believed, and I felt it deep in my core. Something was different, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I kept telling myself I believed in god, I'd go to church with my family on sunday, sing all the hymns and hers, pray at the dinner table... but it all felt awkward. It didn't feel right, and I didn't feel comfortable doing it. Until one day I found out that there are others out there that also don't believe in god, and they call themselves atheists. That's when I started to learn who these people are, and right away I felt more comfortable. Just knowing that I'm not alone in this feeling. It was only at that point that I started doing more research on it and figuring out the logic behind it.
So by your argument, at the age of 10, I made a conscious decision to defy everything everyone has ever taught me about god and decide that meh... that's just not for me. And never look back.