Ontopic Find all your Covid-19 needs here!

[Mr. Argumentor]

Coworker that went home sick Wednesday just now tested positive

 

[august]

That's literally how fascism works

yes but we've been around and around on here before (the general we, not you and I in particular) on where the line should get drawn, how proactive one should be about things, the paradox of tolerance, etc and that's part of where the disconnect comes from with people that are open to thinking it's harmless or even beneficial to showcase/allow some viewpoints to be shared on someone's platform in the interest of discussion or whatever vs. people saying that you've got to shut it down at the very first.

 

[Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski]

yes but we've been around and around on here before (the general we, not you and I in particular) on where the line should get drawn, how proactive one should be about things, the paradox of tolerance, etc and that's part of where the disconnect comes from with people that are open to thinking it's harmless or even beneficial to showcase/allow some viewpoints to be shared on someone's platform in the interest of discussion or whatever vs. people saying that you've got to shut it down at the very first.

I think there's two sides. The one that stops fascism and the one that recognises and draws the line on fascism when its far too late because they harbour idiotic ideas that idiots should be free to propagate dangerous information in this digital age. One side sees ripples and looks at wider contexts within society and the other buries their heads with ideological fallacy then quietly backs off when it's past time because doubling down and being wrong brings about feelings of shame.

 

[tre]

Bunch of clowns.

There's no vaccine mandate for truckers in Canada. Individual employers can have their own mandate, so if you're driving a Canadian Tire or Loblaws truck then those companies can require it, but if you're an independent trucker you don't need it.

The big thing they're throwing a fit about is now they gotta get vaccinated to enter the US. Which is a US rule, not Canadian legislation. And I'm guessing that Joe Biden is gonna listen and change the rules because a bunch of these asshats blocked the highway between New Brunswick and Nova Scotia? fuck knows.

There's also a gofundme set up by some missus who's part of the Wexit Party (now the Maverick Party or some shit) that's raised close to 4 million dollars now to go to the truckers, with no mention of how it's going to be dispersed or how to apply for those funds, and everyone's expecting her to fuck off with the money.

What they are protesting is that unvaccinated truckers will be required to quarantine for two weeks after re-entering Canada

 

[gee]

What they are protesting is that unvaccinated truckers will be required to quarantine for two weeks after re-entering Canada

But they can't enter the US in the first place, so that point is moot.

 

[august]

I think there's two sides. The one that stops fascism and the one that recognises and draws the line on fascism when its far too late because they harbour idiotic ideas that idiots should be free to propagate dangerous information in this digital age. One side sees ripples and looks at wider contexts within society and the other buries their heads with ideological fallacy then quietly backs off when it's past time because doubling down and being wrong brings about feelings of shame.

100%

there's also the believed moral superiority of being the one to "take the high road"/not "stooping to their level" because the two "sides" are presented as equivalent, the action itself is made into a moral absolute rather than viewing it in context.

there's also a related tendency people have to allow bad faith actors to control the conversation rather than recognizing and calling them out for their bad faith & refusing to engage or platform them. here's Sartre on antisemitism, which I know several of us have posted & reposted here:

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

yes, but also I do think that series of tweets does a decent job of describing the gradual progression in a way that people could be familiar with vs. the abstract, whereas that proverb is more easily written off as slippery slope-ism/alarmism or Godwin-ing. and in this particular scenario I was referencing, it presents you with a specific example where it can be argued that the original entity (bar/tender or Rogan) are not necessarily supportive of the thing they're allowing and which eventually takes over, but rather trying to be "fair" or whatever.

and so it also ties back into Karl Popper's Paradox of Tolerance and Milton Mayer's They Thought They Were Free, both of which I feel like I'm constantly referencing around this stuff. most people agree that there are lines in the sand to be drawn, and the disagreement is in where and when to draw that line, what is the "one great shocking occasion" that you'd feel would justify taking action, but it never comes. I'm going to quote a bit of the Mayer piece below, but I'm including an explicit disclaimer that while it relates to the discussion on Rogan, it's not specific/exclusive to being about him or about Nazis, it's again illustrating the gradualism that can make it harder for people to draw the line once you've committed to moving it.

Thank you for sharing this.

 

[ZRH]

yes but we've been around and around on here before (the general we, not you and I in particular) on where the line should get drawn, how proactive one should be about things, the paradox of tolerance, etc and that's part of where the disconnect comes from with people that are open to thinking it's harmless or even beneficial to showcase/allow some viewpoints to be shared on someone's platform in the interest of discussion or whatever vs. people saying that you've got to shut it down at the very first.

I was thinking of

1976_The-Third-Wave_story | THE WAVE - Official Site (Die Welle & The Third Wave resource)

www.thewavehome.com

 

[ZRH]

I've listened to a few YT episodes quite some time ago. Talked a load of shit by all accounts. I'm not his demographic.

I guess here's the difficulty dude. I'm happy to think his show was light hearted and all good a long time ago, but things change and evolve. And when something becomes very popular with certain demographics it's not by accident or coincidence, it's because of the content and how things around the content evolve. The people you attract are a reflection of who you are. And at a certain point your willingness to be associated with that will be open to judgement.

Wait wait wait, does that mean listening to NPR makes me an overeducated liberal suburbanite?

 

[Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski]

Please explain this apparent concept of having too much education first.

 

[ZRH]

Please explain this apparent concept of having too much education first.

Well you see it implies preconceived ideas of the establishment, for lack of a more elegant analogy the "working class" is generally looked down upon as people who didn't make it despite being the ones who generally keep the lights on. In the US anyway. "Overeducated" is a less than subtle rebellion to that attitude. This might be an entirely American thing.

I can go on but if you want to drive an excavator you don't put "Aeronautical Engineer" on your resume. Both sides have an established concept of the norm. It's not looked kindly upon to break with character.

Edits:

 

[Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski]

Yes. Only in America is education looked down on

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

Well you see it implies preconceived ideas of the establishment, for lack of a more elegant analogy the "working class" is generally looked down upon as people who didn't make it despite being the ones who generally keep the lights on. In the US anyway. "Overeducated" is a less than subtle rebellion to that attitude. This might be an entirely American thing.

I can go on but if you want to drive an excavator you don't put "Aeronautical Engineer" on your resume. Both sides have an established concept of the norm. It's not looked kindly upon to break with character.

Edits:

That's a reflection of the social hierarchy I be talking about.

 

[Mr. Argumentor]

Please explain this apparent concept of having too much education first.

In America, if you are too smart you cannot be a cop, whereas over in your neck of the woods I believe they have to have a degree in order to do so?

And I call it, the Aristocrats!

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

Some old rockers are alright; Neil Young wants his music off Spotify if Joe Rogan is gonna be on there. This will probably go as well as the Pono Player.

Neil Young Demands Spotify Remove His Music Over 'False Information About Vaccines'

“They can have [Joe] Rogan or Young,” Neil Young wrote in a letter to his manager and label. “Not both”

www.rollingstone.com

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

In America, if you are too smart you cannot be a cop, whereas over in your neck of the woods I believe they have to have a degree in order to do so?

And I call it, the Aristocrats!

Well duh! If they're too thoughtful they might start asking troublesome questions like "Aren't we supposed to be the good guys?" or "Maybe we shouldn't be so corrupt?"

 

[Hoff Kinkmeister]

Anybody else think about how obviously bad at "efficient problem solving" (or whatever the buzzwords are these days) capitalism has been during the pandemic? Supply shortages are still the norm across the board two years in.

Oh, profits are still good? Guess they did solve the problem of maintaining or boosting profit while putting out shittier product/service.

 

[Dory Berkowitz-Bukowski]

In America, if you are too smart you cannot be a cop, whereas over in your neck of the woods I believe they have to have a degree in order to do so?

And I call it, the Aristocrats!

Yeah there's a lot of training etc. And yes you need qualifications.

 

[Peppers]

Some old rockers are alright; Neil Young wants his music off Spotify if Joe Rogan is gonna be on there. This will probably go as well as the Pono Player.

Neil Young Demands Spotify Remove His Music Over 'False Information About Vaccines'

“They can have [Joe] Rogan or Young,” Neil Young wrote in a letter to his manager and label. “Not both”

www.rollingstone.com

he had his music removed from all streaming services a few years ago because he said the sound quality was awful. Once he started missing those paychecks his music was back up.

 

[Strings]

According to the radio this morning, a newly discovered covid side effect could be erectile disfunction.
But being vaccinated significantly reduces the % chance of that happening.
There could be a sudden rush of anti vaxers looking to get vaxed