Thread Crime victim uses submission hold, alleged burglar dies from injuries

OzSTEEZ

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Nov 11, 2008
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Martial arts choke holds are no joke. We've talked about that repeatedly after watching television and radio hosts asking MMA fighters to slap on the holds for a photo opportunity. The rear-naked or guillotine choke is a potentially lethal move if not treated with care. Just ask Alex Montalvo, who's in the center of a firestorm in New Jersey. Back in July of 2010, Montalvo fought off a burglar, slapped on a submission hold and left Douglas Uhler unconscious on the street. Uhler never fully recovered and died yesterday at 19 years old.

On July 31 at 3:39 a.m. in Bridgewater, N.J., Montalvo and his wife heard their car alarm go off. The 42-year-old ran to the street, identified two suspects and chased them to the next block.

With one punch, he knocked out Brian Johnston, 18. That's when Uhler emerged:

Uhler ran out from nearby bushes and shouted: "You want a piece of me, (expletive)?!"

Uhler jumped on Montalvo, who put him in a submission hold, Somerset County Prosecutor Geoffrey Soriano said. The move blocked the teen's oxygen flow, causing a brain injury, Soriano said.

Uhler was taken to Somerset Medical Center and later treated at Robert Wood Johnson Medical Center. He never fully recovered from the injuries:

A once-strapping high school football player, Uhler spent his days in bed or in a wheelchair. He had to be fed through a tube, according to court records. He was non-vocal and unable to walk, sit or roll. He also had poor head control. Uhler had been in and out of several hospitals, including the Children's Specialized Hospital and the Kessler Institute for Rehabilitation.

Back in December, a grand jury indicted Uhler and Johnston on third-degree burglary charges. Johnson pleaded guilty and is awaiting charges. The Uhler family wants Montalvo in a courtroom next, claiming he used excessive force to subdue their son.



OK. So what is your opinion on this situation? I feel that Montalvo went from being the victim to the attacker as son as he chased the two others. It's no longer self defence when you chase the attackers. The threat is gone. In my opinion he did the wrong thing. Not sure that I would charge him with murder though.


EDIT: Link http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/ca...t=Aj0AI5xsxP7NTETmxq0Nv1A9Eo14?urn=mma-wp1243
 
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b_sinning

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If you are willing to break the law for personal gain then you risk getting killed for it. The UFC fighter didn't ask for them to endanger his family or go to their homes for no reason. The criminals initiated the series of events.
 

Coqui

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I agree with your opinion.

Yes, Uhler stood up to him, but he didn't charge. Montalvo did. That wasn't self defense, that was offense.
 

OzSTEEZ

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I agree with your opinion.

Yes, Uhler stood up to him, but he didn't charge. Montalvo did. That wasn't self defense, that was offense.

Had it been at the location of the car. Had he confronted them and then an altercations broke out, he would be totally justified in his use of force.
 

Casper

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Oct 6, 2009
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If you are willing to break the law for personal gain then you risk getting killed for it. The UFC fighter didn't ask for them to endanger his family or go to their homes for no reason. The criminals initiated the series of events.

The kids were breaking in to his car. Was that on public property?
 

Amstel

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you're a whore, but in a good way. Kindof.
I think it's wrong to stop pursuing just because the attackers are leaving. You might as well just announce to them, hey, if we catch you in the middle of pulling some shit and you bail, I won't chase you down, in fact, no one really will since it's a robbery or theft. The cops don't give a shit, won't rush to the scene since the people are safe, and they will hang out for hours filling out paperwork because, hey, as long as you bail, we won't come after you.

Hey, we allow you to bail as a freebie!

I think if you're the thief you keep thinking as long as I don't hear the alarm or see someone running at me, all is good. keep your head down and keep picking that lock.
 
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OzSTEEZ

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"Uhler jumped on Montalvo"

Don't leave out the line right before that where Montalvo knocked out the other guy. Regardless though, Montalvo chased them down. He became the attacker. He kept on using force when the others had dropped the threat.
 

Coqui

Piccolo Pete
Oct 14, 2004
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If you are willing to break the law for personal gain then you risk getting killed for it. The UFC fighter didn't ask for them to endanger his family or go to their homes for no reason. The criminals initiated the series of events.

I agree, you need to weigh risks before your decision to do illegal activities, but we're talking about the law here, not not morality/rationality. He chased them a full block before any contact was made. It's now gone from protection, to revenge.
 

Coqui

Piccolo Pete
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I think it's wrong to stop just because the attackers are leaving. You might as well just announce to them, hey, if we catch you in the middle of pulling some shit and you bail, I won't chase you down, in fact, no one really will since it's a robbery or theft. The cops don't give a shit, won't rush to the scene since the people are safe, and they will hang out for hours filling out paperwork because, hey, as long as you bail, we won't come after you.

Hey, we allow you to bail as a freebie!

I think if you're the thief you keep thinking as long as I don't hear the alarm or see someone running at me, all is good. keep your head down and keep picking that lock.

What do gun laws say about firing for protection if the suspect is running away? Is deadly force permissable?
 

OzSTEEZ

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I think it's wrong to stop just because the attackers are leaving. You might as well just announce to them, hey, if we catch you in the middle of pulling some shit and you bail, I won't chase you down, in fact, no one really will since it's a robbery or theft. The cops don't give a shit, won't rush to the scene since the people are safe, and they will hang out for hours filling out paperwork because, hey, as long as you bail, we won't come after you.

Hey, we allow you to bail as a freebie!

I think if you're the thief you keep thinking as long as I don't hear the alarm or see someone running at me, all is good. keep your head down and keep picking that lock.

That's horrible. You should be looking for any way not to use violence. I don't understand what it is with you religious red necks who fear god but have a lust for harming other people.
 

b_sinning

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Don't leave out the line right before that where Montalvo knocked out the other guy. Regardless though, Montalvo chased them down. He became the attacker. He kept on using force when the others had dropped the threat.


Drop the threat? "Uhler ran out from nearby bushes and shouted: "You want a piece of me, (expletive)?!"" and then jumped on him. I think the UFc fighter just used too much force once he got the hold on because of adrenaline from the chase.
 

OzSTEEZ

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And by the way. No one deserves to die for theft. This is the USA, not Iran.
 

OzSTEEZ

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Drop the threat? "Uhler ran out from nearby bushes and shouted: "You want a piece of me, (expletive)?!"" and then jumped on him. I think the UFc fighter just used too much force once he got the hold on because of adrenaline from the chase.

Yes, he knocked the other guy out. THEN Ulher ran out of the bushes at him. In this case, Ulher is defending his friend.
 

b_sinning

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Nov 22, 2004
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Ulher didn't look to be a rocket scientist or going to cure aids anytime soon so I say we just mark this one up to Darwinism and move on.
 

Amstel

The Hoarse Whisperer
Jul 12, 2009
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you're a whore, but in a good way. Kindof.
Don't leave out the line right before that where Montalvo knocked out the other guy. Regardless though, Montalvo chased them down. He became the attacker. He kept on using force when the others had dropped the threat.

'became the attacker' is quite the stretch.

Montalvo knocked out the other guy.

the coward hiding in the bushes thinks this is no big deal and decides to come out. Apparently he was only afraid of Montalvo's great speed, not his fist. whooooops.