City planners or city saboteurs

D

dbzeag

Wants to kiss you where it stinks
Jun 9, 2006
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So I just heard news that the Shoreway will be brought from 3 lanes in each direction down to 2 until April to do investigative studies, then down to 1 or to close completely while doing work to replace a sewer conduit from 1910.

This means nothing to anyone, but let me explain a bit.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...-81.712704&spn=0.058516,0.104713&z=14&layer=t

The Shoreway is the north most route in the map, closest to the lake. This route was the first major thoroughfare into the city from the west side suburbs. This is the main diversion road in case other highway systems on the west side are in repair.

Which brings me conveniently to my next point.

The next major highway system to the south is Interstate 90. This also goes from east to west to bring westside commuters into the city. This was built in the 70's to alleviate congestion on that Shoreway line. This is 4 lanes wide each way. Earlier in 2008 it was deemed the largest bridge in Cleveland, the I90 bridge to get into downtown, was not safe anymore. Since early 2008, one lane has been closed to remove some of the traffic as well as restrictions for trucks to not be able to use that bridge and have to route around to get through. Until "city planners" figure out what to do with the bridge, they are going to be closing more lanes down to reduce the stress on the bridge with traffic.

Moral of this whole diatribe: Who in their everloving mind decided it would be a good idea to almost fully close the largest more important thoroughfare into a city that is desperate for accessibility without a viable workaround? And it is these same people that decide the one main detour for this closure are planning on closing the detour. 7 lanes of traffic from the westside will be closed down until 2010, this will AID in making Cleveland more accessible.

On top of that, the Shoreway closure occurred yesterday, in below-freezing weather. I am pretty sure a lot of investigative work is getting done identifying a 5ft diameter pipeline location (because that's hard to find apparently) during the winter until April before they start actually digging it up and replacing the pipe. And what about the state statutes that say there is to be no orange barrels (construction zones) in the winter months because of dangerous slippery conditions? I can forgive the bridge dibacle because that is in an emergency state, but the "investigative" work on the pipeline on the shoreway could surely wait 2 months. The pipe is 90 years old, 2 more months should be sufficient.

Fuck this city. Fuck Ohio. *fires up careerbuilder.ca* I am very tempted to refuse paying my state and local taxes (for which I get double tapped, paying income tax in my city of residence AND in the city of work) for failure to use my funds in approved, constitutional ways.
 
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mikey said:
are they shutting it down right at dead man's curve?
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The shoreway? No

I90? Probably if they have to replace and/or fix the bridge because that's where the bridge stops being a bridge on the east side, DMC.
 
Well since the bridge collapse in Minnesota a couple years ago, State Gov'ts and the Feds have been dropping the hammer so to speak on the crappy, neglected infrastructure here in the US. They don't want to risk another bridge collapse or a road sink hole due to a collapsed sewer line. Citizens don't understand how important it is to maintain these infrastructures that they use everyday but may not be readily seen to the naked eye. Since they cannot be seen, they must not be important and worth spending my tax dollars on, is a common viewpoint.

So based on what you said, I don't see a problem with their decision making. Yes it is a big inconvenience to everyone involved, but what other choice do you have. If you don't spend tax money on fixing stuff, it's gunna breakdown.
 
dbzeag said:
The shoreway? No

I90? Probably if they have to replace and/or fix the bridge because that's where the bridge stops being a bridge on the east side, DMC.
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the shoreway starts right at dead mans curve and ends near flakewood. so would they be closing the whole thing?
 
Shutting down the shoreway would only be an inconvenience for people east of the city. And it's just a small group of people. They'd have to drive plain ol streets. Anyone who lives more than a couple miles west of lakewood take 90 to get into the city.

Now closing the i90 bridge, on the other hand, would make for problems.


edit> I should mention for everyone's benefit that dbzeag would probably be one of the few taking the shoreway into cleveland. so he has reason to complain
 
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They did/are doing something similar in Chicago, it's a complete resurface of the Edens Expwy, down past the junction and is like... the only route to the city (because everything comes together at the junction) There was no detour.

Everyone trying to get into the city in the morning and leaving the city at night, in what is usually 7 or 8 lanes across in each direction was taken down to 2 (and in some places 1 lane) Now this usually bottlenecks anyway and even with all lanes open traffic is stop and go (even on a Saturday wtf) with the construction there were like 3 and 4 hour travel times to get into/out of the city.

Why were they doing this? Because the company that had the contract for the last billion years only ended up putting down half of the pavement that it should have, which is supposed to explain why we get potholes the size of Volkswagon's after snow. The part I don't get is that they closed down like a 20 mile section of the highway, even when no work was being done on it. For months, everyone crept by the barricades and empty lanes with angst because they were closed for no reason.

I think they stopped for winter but will be picking up again in the thaw... it's a project that isn't supposed to be completed until 2011.

I like the way my uncle explained how PA does it. They do construction overnight and only close off as much road as they will be repairing at that time. No muss, no fuss, things get fixed and people aren't sitting in their cars for 8 hours a day trying to get to/from work.
 
hawk82 said:
Well since the bridge collapse in Minnesota a couple years ago, State Gov'ts and the Feds have been dropping the hammer so to speak on the crappy, neglected infrastructure here in the US. They don't want to risk another bridge collapse or a road sink hole due to a collapsed sewer line. Citizens don't understand how important it is to maintain these infrastructures that they use everyday but may not be readily seen to the naked eye. Since they cannot be seen, they must not be important and worth spending my tax dollars on, is a common viewpoint.

So based on what you said, I don't see a problem with their decision making. Yes it is a big inconvenience to everyone involved, but what other choice do you have. If you don't spend tax money on fixing stuff, it's gunna breakdown.
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I agree on the bridge inspections. The determination that it needs to get fixed is a wise one. But the I35 bridge in MN was scrapped, rebuilt, and fortified in under a year. It has been almost a year in just planning and lane closures in Cleveland. If they were THAT serious, at least the funding would have been secured by now.

The sewer isn't a pressing issue because it isn't sinking or collapsing or anything. It is like a regular maintenance interval item.

By now the bridge should have had repair work done on it, at least had funding approved for it by now. I would divert all energies, contract firms, and road work spending on getting that done. After that is finished (only a year or 1.5, as shown by MN), then I would work on the sewer. This would give people a main thoroughfare at all times to get into and/or through the city with minimal impact on residential roads. With this latest one lane closure for inspection purposes turned a neighborhood suburb on the westside into a parking lot.
 
mikey said:
the shoreway starts right at dead mans curve and ends near flakewood. so would they be closing the whole thing?
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The Shoreway they are closing from W49 to Whiskey Island exit, just by the train track bridge.
 
zengirl said:
I like the way my uncle explained how PA does it. They do construction overnight and only close off as much road as they will be repairing at that time. No muss, no fuss, things get fixed and people aren't sitting in their cars for 8 hours a day trying to get to/from work.
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Driving through PA SUCKS!
 
mikey said:
Shutting down the shoreway would only be an inconvenience for people east of the city. And it's just a small group of people. They'd have to drive plain ol streets. Anyone who lives more than a couple miles east of lakewood take 90 to get into the city.

Now closing the i90 bridge, on the other hand, would make for problems.


edit> I should mention for everyone's benefit that dbzeag would probably be one of the few taking the shoreway into cleveland. so he has reason to complain
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You mean west, west of the city.

And it isn't just a concern for me. If you close I90, trucking routes are going to be impacted trying to get THROUGH the city. The majority of the commuters into Cleveland are from the Westside. More than 85% of Lakewood's population (largest suburb of Cleveland) which is directly west of the city commutes and it would directly impact them as well.

The detour routes the city is recommending are two streets that are stoplight-ridden at every city block, 2 lanes each way on each of those streets, and partly residential. 7 lanes of highway traffic cannot be diverted into 2/4 lanes of 25mph city traffic effectively.
 
dbzeag said:
You mean west, west of the city.

And it isn't just a concern for me. If you close I90, trucking routes are going to be impacted trying to get THROUGH the city. The majority of the commuters into Cleveland are from the Westside. More than 85% of Lakewood's population (largest suburb of Cleveland) which is directly west of the city commutes and it would directly impact them as well.

The detour routes the city is recommending are two streets that are stoplight-ridden at every city block, 2 lanes each way on each of those streets, and partly residential. 7 lanes of highway traffic cannot be diverted into 2/4 lanes of 25mph city traffic effectively.
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i already fixed the west typo :lol:
 
Wow, I'm amazed that Maine actually does something right compared to other states.

All the big work around here is done overnight, or on weekends that aren't big tourist travel weeks.

The last major street that was worked on had the work done over the course of a month overnight from 10pm to 6am, then the one big piece got done over a weekend outside of tourist season.
 
dbzeag said:
You mean west, west of the city.

And it isn't just a concern for me. If you close I90, trucking routes are going to be impacted trying to get THROUGH the city. The majority of the commuters into Cleveland are from the Westside. More than 85% of Lakewood's population (largest suburb of Cleveland) which is directly west of the city commutes and it would directly impact them as well.

The detour routes the city is recommending are two streets that are stoplight-ridden at every city block, 2 lanes each way on each of those streets, and partly residential. 7 lanes of highway traffic cannot be diverted into 2/4 lanes of 25mph city traffic effectively.
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that's what i said i think. shutting down the i90 bridge would make for problems. shoreway, not so much.
 
zengirl said:
I like the way my uncle explained how PA does it. They do construction overnight and only close off as much road as they will be repairing at that time. No muss, no fuss, things get fixed and people aren't sitting in their cars for 8 hours a day trying to get to/from work.
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Toronto does the same thing. It is rush hour on twice as many lanes as in Chicago 24/7. They cannot afford downtime on the highway. They close off whole sections of highways, both sides from a certain exit to a certain entrance and just go to down fixing it up. They usually wait for 7:01pm Friday to start and by Monday morning on reopening, a few miles of that 14 lane-wide road is fixed.
 
The Duke Of Nuke said:
It's Cleveland. You expected better?
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I didn't think this city could get much worse, but yet again it disappoints. I am just getting more and more surprised at just how bad things are, then something else comes along that further degrades what has to be the worst city in the country.
 
Valve1080i said:
Wow, I'm amazed that Maine actually does something right compared to other states.

All the big work around here is done overnight, or on weekends that aren't big tourist travel weeks.

The last major street that was worked on had the work done over the course of a month overnight from 10pm to 6am, then the one big piece got done over a weekend outside of tourist season.
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I295 last year, right? And those contractors got the work done like a week ahead of scheduled contract they gave the state. Props to them. Those huge work lights they had going at night was jawesome. I could see for like 3mi ahead of their work area without headlights. :fly:
 
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