Ontopic Bad legal system or unlucky guy

you dinks ever watch death row stories? well the last one the dude who was on death row finally got the state to say they will allow dna testing of a coat at the scene that he claims will get him off. The state then comes back and says sorry but we lost the coat somehow so we can't test it.

Yeah right you mongoloids
 
Mr. Asa said:
I like the one recently where the guy got shot within three seconds of being ordered to raise his hands by people in the dark that didn't identify themselves as cops.
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Not familiar with that one, but there are always exceptions. The majority of videos I see are of citizens doing dumb things that take them down the path of being shot.
 
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fly said:
Not familiar with that one, but there are always exceptions. The majority of videos I see are of citizens doing dumb things that take them down the path of being shot.
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The guy that got shot in his backyard over in Cali

Edit: and my point with that is that too often cops don't allow the time necessary for someone to comply.
 
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Mr. Asa said:
The guy that got shot in his backyard over in Cali

Edit: and my point with that is that too often cops don't allow the time necessary for someone to comply.
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People see things differently.

That idiot:
* was vandalizing shit
* ran
* pulled out a cell phone once cornered

These officers lives are in danger every fucking day, and they're therefore required to make split second decisions about the future of their own family. At any point, that guy could have complied with the law and still be breathing. He chose to gamble.

It's *super* easy to sit on your couch on Monday morning eating a ham sandwich and say they did something wrong.
 
fly said:
That idiot:
* was vandalizing shit
* ran
* pulled out a cell phone once cornered
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That is indeed the narrative the cops are giving out. In any case, none of that is worth deadly force.

If cops are such snowflakes they are scared to the point they can't show a modicum of restraint in the course of their job, they should quit
 
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there are two problems

1) the lack of desire to take personal risk

2) stemming from that, the right training and tools to provide non-lethal incapacitation.

Really, its mostly #1. The fact that a voluntary position (noone is forced to be a cop), tries to eliminate all risk to its position, at the price of greatly increasing risk and danger to a non-voluntary position (being a citizen out the in the world) is bad logic.

Cops choose to become cops. There should be acceptance of some level of risk as part of the job, and that risk should not be pushed off completely to people that dont choose to accept that risk.
 
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Domon said:
there are two problems

1) the lack of desire to take personal risk

2) stemming from that, the right training and tools to provide non-lethal incapacitation.

Really, its mostly #1. The fact that a voluntary position (noone is forced to be a cop), tries to eliminate all risk to its position, at the price of greatly increasing risk and danger to a non-voluntary position (being a citizen out the in the world) is bad logic.

Cops choose to become cops. There should be acceptance of some level of risk as part of the job, and that risk should not be pushed off completely to people that dont choose to accept that risk.
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we dont pay them to shoot us
its kind of becoming that way
 
Domon said:
there are two problems

1) the lack of desire to take personal risk

2) stemming from that, the right training and tools to provide non-lethal incapacitation.

Really, its mostly #1. The fact that a voluntary position (noone is forced to be a cop), tries to eliminate all risk to its position, at the price of greatly increasing risk and danger to a non-voluntary position (being a citizen out the in the world) is bad logic.

Cops choose to become cops. There should be acceptance of some level of risk as part of the job, and that risk should not be pushed off completely to people that dont choose to accept that risk.
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There is the acceptance of that every day. Every time they do a traffic stop, domestic violence call, kids breaking into cars, etc. However, in the time that it would take that officer to determine what exactly some scumbag is pointing at them, their children could end up wearing black suits and dresses tossing in dirt. Fuck that.

edit: And again, that guy could have stopped this whole situation by complying right from the start of the interaction. Or, ya know, not breaking the law in the first place.
 
I can get behind most of what you said, but this:

Domon said:
that risk should not be pushed off completely to people that dont choose to accept that risk.
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I think that if you're doing this:

The incident began on Sunday after 9 p.m., when Sacramento officers responded to a report that a man had broken car windows and was hiding in a backyard. The man was described as 6-foot-1, thin and wearing a black hoodie and pants, police said in a statement.
Officers arrived and were aided by a team in a Sacramento Sheriff's Department helicopter. Police said the helicopter personnel observed that the suspect had picked up a "toolbar" and broken a window to a residence. The helicopter team observed the man running and looking into another car, police said. The helicopter then guided officers to the man's location in the backyard of a home.
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By default you're accepting risk.
 
fly said:
There is the acceptance of that every day. Every time they do a traffic stop, domestic violence call, kids breaking into cars, etc. However, in the time that it would take that officer to determine what exactly some scumbag is pointing at them, their children could end up wearing black suits and dresses tossing in dirt. Fuck that.

edit: And again, that guy could have stopped this whole situation by complying right from the start of the interaction. Or, ya know, not breaking the law in the first place.
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this is all predicated off the assumption that every citizen has the desire and goal to shoot a cop. This is statistically and patently a false concept.
 
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Amstel said:
I can get behind most of what you said, but this:



I think that if you're doing this:

The incident began on Sunday after 9 p.m., when Sacramento officers responded to a report that a man had broken car windows and was hiding in a backyard. The man was described as 6-foot-1, thin and wearing a black hoodie and pants, police said in a statement.
Officers arrived and were aided by a team in a Sacramento Sheriff's Department helicopter. Police said the helicopter personnel observed that the suspect had picked up a "toolbar" and broken a window to a residence. The helicopter team observed the man running and looking into another car, police said. The helicopter then guided officers to the man's location in the backyard of a home.
​
By default you're accepting risk.
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Im speaking more generally here. But even in that scenario, proportional non-lethal response would apply.

Just as its does to citizens. If you as a citizen, pull your firearm and shoot immediately someone who is at a distance, with a crowbar, its likely you get charges with something due to your disproportional response.
 
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fly said:
There is the acceptance of that every day. Every time they do a traffic stop, domestic violence call, kids breaking into cars, etc. However, in the time that it would take that officer to determine what exactly some scumbag is pointing at them, their children could end up wearing black suits and dresses tossing in dirt. Fuck that.

edit: And again, that guy could have stopped this whole situation by complying right from the start of the interaction. Or, ya know, not breaking the law in the first place.
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The vast majority of stops do not end that way. To prioritize that over deaths of non-cops is a shitty argument. Why are cop's lives more important than anyone else? Especially since, as has been mentioned ad nauseum, it is a volunteer position?
 
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