Thread Article: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us

fly

Osharts 11
Oct 1, 2004
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Steam
mattressfish
Can we dispense with the myth that it's easier for minorities and the poor to succeed now than it used to be. Can we also dispense with the myth that it doesn;t matter where you start out in life. If you're born poor in the USA (and here too) you are almost certainly going to die poor.

"Family origins matter more in the United States in determining where one ends up in life compared to other wealthy democratic countries. This is a recent development. Studies of social mobility as far back as the 1950s and 1960s showed that rates of movement in the United States were generally comparable to other developed countries. This finding itself challenged the longstanding image of America as exceptionally open, but it is a far cry from today, when the United States rates at or near the bottom in comparative studies of social mobility.
To take just two examples, a study by Jo Blanden and colleagues at the London School of Economics found that a father's income was a better predictor of a son's income in the United States than in seven other countries, including Germany, Canada, and the United Kingdom. And a review article by Miles Corak at the University of Ottawa, based on 50 studies of nine countries, found the United States tied with the United Kingdom as having the least social mobility, trailing not only Norway and Denmark but France, Germany, and Canada."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerom...quality-and-the-american-dream_b_1933238.html

I haven't read the last 10 or so pages, but I think that goes back to a post I made earlier about proper role models. The welfare state here has made for some shitty role models. People learn that they can get by doing nothing and in return getting subsistence living. Is it ideal? No. Is it good enough? To a lot people, apparently yes.

Some people have no problem trading the rat race of consumerism for free handouts and watching TV all day.
 

fly

Osharts 11
Oct 1, 2004
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mattressfish
No, I'm arguing that you can't just shrug your shoulders and say that the poor only have themselves to blame, if only they wanted to work etc. It's immeasurably harder to work your way out of poverty than it is to work your way from a middle-class background. To pretend otherwise is crass.

Do I look like a badass to you? I assume you that I'm not.
 

Sarcasmo

A Taste Of Honey Fluff Boy
Mar 28, 2005
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Seriously, some of my ancestors married blacks before and after the Civil War. I didn't get these lips from white people.
 

Sarcasmo

A Taste Of Honey Fluff Boy
Mar 28, 2005
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I once asked an aggressive homeless dude (black, probably 40 or so) harrassing people outside my office why he didn't have a job and he said "I don't want no d*mn job, man." When I refused to give him money he then said "I hope you lose your f*ckin' job." I told him I hope he falls ill and winds up buried in a lonely, unmarked grave with no one to care whether he ever existed. And I'm sure that's what happened.
 

plot

Morning Boehner
Oct 16, 2006
20,031
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I once asked an aggressive homeless dude (black, probably 40 or so) harrassing people outside my office why he didn't have a job and he said "I don't want no d*mn job, man." When I refused to give him money he then said "I hope you lose your f*ckin' job." I told him I hope he falls ill and winds up buried in a lonely, unmarked grave with no one to care whether he ever existed. And I'm sure that's what happened.

I think they usually cremate now.
 

Amstel

The Hoarse Whisperer
Jul 12, 2009
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you're a whore, but in a good way. Kindof.
No, I'm arguing that you can't just shrug your shoulders and say that the poor only have themselves to blame, if only they wanted to work etc. It's immeasurably harder to work your way out of poverty than it is to work your way from a middle-class background. To pretend otherwise is crass.

No. You're arguing that all the money, programs and effort that have been spent on that segment of the population since the 50's hasn't changed a thing.
 

water

Flaccid Member
Oct 29, 2004
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96a66f73.png

I demand that nemo be given this as an avatar.
 

DJBrenton

In Her Majesty's Secret Cervix
Feb 10, 2010
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No. You're arguing that all the money, programs and effort that have been spent on that segment of the population since the 50's hasn't changed a thing.

Indeed I am. There aren't enough jobs for averyone and it's the same segment of society that tends to not be able to get those jobs. There is a cycle of low education, poverty, low expectations for you own children that is hard to break. It's not dependency culture, it's realism. There are areas in most countries that offer lower employment opportunities and you get whole generations in those areas who don't expect to get a job. Low income areas tend towards being high crime areas too and it's all too easy for middle-class white people to simply point at anyone who has a criminal record and say 'poor life choice. Live with it' when that person with a record can't find employment. My point really is that many people start out with such disadvantages that they can't be blamed if they don't overcome them.
 

Amstel

The Hoarse Whisperer
Jul 12, 2009
28,172
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you're a whore, but in a good way. Kindof.
Indeed I am. There aren't enough jobs for averyone and it's the same segment of society that tends to not be able to get those jobs. There is a cycle of low education, poverty, low expectations for you own children that is hard to break. It's not dependency culture, it's realism. There are areas in most countries that offer lower employment opportunities and you get whole generations in those areas who don't expect to get a job. Low income areas tend towards being high crime areas too and it's all too easy for middle-class white people to simply point at anyone who has a criminal record and say 'poor life choice. Live with it' when that person with a record can't find employment. My point really is that many people start out with such disadvantages that they can't be blamed if they don't overcome them.

Because choosing to steal is available and choosing to get a paper route, mow lawns, or shovel driveways isn't?

Orrrrrrr, choosing to steal is just easier so fuck the other opportunities.
 

DJBrenton

In Her Majesty's Secret Cervix
Feb 10, 2010
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Robin Hoodland
Because choosing to steal is available and choosing to get a paper route, mow lawns, or shovel driveways isn't?

Orrrrrrr, choosing to steal is just easier so fuck the other opportunities.


You prove my point yet again. You are far too insular and selfish to have any understanding of what it's like to grow up without hope. I guess you think africans should just get jobs too.
 

Amstel

The Hoarse Whisperer
Jul 12, 2009
28,172
12,439
473
you're a whore, but in a good way. Kindof.
You prove my point yet again. You are far too insular and selfish to have any understanding of what it's like to grow up without hope. I guess you think africans should just get jobs too.

No. I simply believe that if someone wants change in their own life, they've got to make the change.

Your sarcasm about africans just getting a job (mow lawns/shovel driveways) is so nonsensical it's humorous. But if the job was, 'yeah, go out and kill the wild animal or you'll starve, I'm not doing it for you.' then yeah, get a fucking job, & quit thinking you're going to steal my food.

Sadly, it's like you create this group of people you deem need help just so you can feel better about helping them.
 

DJBrenton

In Her Majesty's Secret Cervix
Feb 10, 2010
9,391
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Robin Hoodland
No. I simply believe that if someone wants change in their own life, they've got to make the change.

Your sarcasm about africans just getting a job (mow lawns/shovel driveways) is so nonsensical it's humorous. But if the job was, 'yeah, go out and kill the wild animal or you'll starve, I'm not doing it for you.' then yeah, get a fucking job, & quit thinking you're going to steal my food.

Any idea how many people do get a job. The only job they can find, selling drugs? I love how you equate having a criminal record with stealing. there are 1.5 million drug arrests in the USA every year, half for marijuana. Guess what, by and large it's the poorer parts of society that are stopped and searched and then arrested for a bit of weed. Life isn't so easy after that and your mistake can marr your life from a very early age then. Being all smug and superior and talking about mowing lawns and clearing driveways ( like there are loads of people in low rent areas wanting to pay for those things) is condescending and TBH a tad ugly. I guess it's just that poor people don't want to be President or something. I mean anyone can be can't they?