[Article] Article: anatomy of a deal: water heater

Mr. Asa said:
Eh...
Water comes into a house from underground. Underground is very well insulated. There are probably building codes up north that state that water pipes have to be below a certain depth in order to meet code and not freeze. I would bet that the temperature difference in water entering the house is fairly low.

Also, if you want to consider those variables, you can have a different cost per KW/Hr if you're one county over. That will likely affect your cost margin more than the water coming into the house.

Now air, that might be a different story.
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There is a sizable difference in water temperature between city water in Florida and well water in Michigan.
 
Domon said:
they save a bunch of space, and you ahve unlimited hot water.

You literally will need almost a whole panel to handle the amperage the electric ones need. If i remember right, they need at minimum 85 amps, and on average, 100.

If you have a 200 amp service, that means you better have half your entire panel free to install one. If you have 100 amp service? You're not doing it.
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I looked at 'em. Smallest one I could get was 100A input, the largest breaker my panel takes is 60A.

I priced a new panel and getting the power company to pull/replace the meter, it'd take about 400 years to pay itself off. Went with a cheap GSW, water heater blanket and a couple of spare anodes.
 
fly said:
There is a sizable difference in water temperature between city water in Florida and well water in Michigan.
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You're comparing a dug well in a northern climate, and a municipal water system with water pipes buried feet below the surface and giant above-ground storage tanks in a southern climate. Yeah, there'll be a difference.

My well is 200+ feet deep and it's pretty much the same temperature year-round, and I'm 45 degrees north.
 
gee said:
You're comparing a dug well in a northern climate, and a municipal water system with water pipes buried feet below the surface and giant above-ground storage tanks in a southern climate. Yeah, there'll be a difference.

My well is 200+ feet deep and it's pretty much the same temperature year-round, and I'm 45 degrees north.
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Of course its different, but Asa suggested that it wasn't because all water is underground...
 
I grew up with well water in upstate NY and the shower would shoot snowballs for the first few minutes during the winter.
 
fly said:
Of course its different, but Asa suggested that it wasn't because all water is underground...
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I did not mention anything about dissimilar sources of the water. I assumed (bad on me) that we would be talking about city water Vs city water as I would bet that the majority of the posters are on city water.
 
I do love my tankless bosch gas water heater. Yes, I have to fiddle with the temperature controls during seasonal transitions, but the endless hot water and compact formfactor (previously, the utility closet could only house a 40 gallon tank) are a huge deal for me.

But yeah, I can't understand why the South thinks it's perfectly OK to take coal, turn it into heat, turn the heat into electricity, and then take the electricity and turn it back into heat. Hugely wasteful as compared to natural gas.
 
Jehannum said:
I do love my tankless bosch gas water heater. Yes, I have to fiddle with the temperature controls during seasonal transitions, but the endless hot water and compact formfactor (previously, the utility closet could only house a 40 gallon tank) are a huge deal for me.

But yeah, I can't understand why the South thinks it's perfectly OK to take coal, turn it into heat, turn the heat into electricity, and then take the electricity and turn it back into heat. Hugely wasteful as compared to natural gas.
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We've got a bunch of nuclear as well. Also harvesting gas from landfills and a few other angles.
 
shamwow said:
We've got a bunch of nuclear as well. Also harvesting gas from landfills and a few other angles.
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68% of the energy use in the US in 2012 came from coal/natural gas/biomass, but that's irrelevant to the fact that you lose a huge amount of efficiency by transducing those extra times (heat->turbine->generator->electricity->heat), compared to just heating the water directly with gas.
 
Jehannum said:
68% of the energy use in the US in 2012 came from coal/natural gas/biomass, but that's irrelevant to the fact that you lose a huge amount of efficiency by transducing those extra times (heat->turbine->generator->electricity->heat), compared to just heating the water directly with gas.
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No debating that but we have other irons in the fire over here.
 
I have a relative involved in shutting down a reactor. I think they're about 10 years into a 20 year process.
 
Tankless water heaters weren't invented to save energy, they were invented to put on that bathroom that's 1000 feet from your water heater and takes 5 minutes to get hot water so it could automatically get instant on hot water. Later it was expanded to have unlimited got water for an entire house. Purely a convenience thing.

I'm surprised they have any energy savings at all over a normal gas water heater.
 
shamwow said:
I have a relative involved in shutting down a reactor. I think they're about 10 years into a 20 year process.
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Well, I hope it's not literally across the street from your apartment.

I have relatives that were involved in shutting down and cleaning up the Rocky Flats nuclear plant. That also has no bearing on the fact that energy transduction is horribly inefficient.
 
Jehannum said:
Well, I hope it's not literally across the street from your apartment.

I have relatives that were involved in shutting down and cleaning up the Rocky Flats nuclear plant. That also has no bearing on the fact that energy transduction is horribly inefficient.
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That place is now a wildlife preserve because they can't build anything else there. The were going to expand the old airport out that way and the EPA told them no so they moved it out to where it is now.
 
plot said:
Tankless water heaters weren't invented to save energy, they were invented to put on that bathroom that's 1000 feet from your water heater and takes 5 minutes to get hot water so it could automatically get instant on hot water. Later it was expanded to have unlimited got water for an entire house. Purely a convenience thing.

I'm surprised they have any energy savings at all over a normal gas water heater.
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thats my only bathroom :(

takes 90 seconds for water to get hot
 
Floptical said:
That place is now a wildlife preserve because they can't build anything else there. The were going to expand the old airport out that way and the EPA told them no so they moved it out to where it is now.
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Does the wildlife glow in the dark?

My grandfather was a machinist out there back when it was open. He died of cancer he developed on account of the radiation exposure before I was born, and my grandmother just recently got a settlement for it.
 
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