And so it begins...again

S

smileynev

Guest
BigDov said:
I get too worked up for the debate to be healthy for me, that's all :D

This state tends to be way too liberal for my tastes is all. When my oldest daughter went to public school, no pledge of allegiance, teaching about alternative lifestyles, drugs, etc, and this was in kindergarten. That's just fucking wrong.

I wish that they could find the happy medium around here, that's all. :(

Didn't mean to be snippy either man, sorry :heart:
Did they pass around a dime bag for show and tell?
 
H

Harper

Guest
CletusJones said:
it isn't more important. I should have the freedom to do those things, just as you should have the freedom to tell me you don't like it or move to another location - just as I would do if our roles are reversed.
its more about where to draw the line in the sand. what the majority wants, the majority gets. but what happens when the old majority becomes the new minority?
 

BigDov

Erect Member
Oct 14, 2004
9,646
3
41
50
close to Seattle
FlyNavy said:
You're right, they shouldn't be taught about sexuality. But they should be taught to be open minded about the choices other people make in their lives.


Exactly!!! And that's what my wife and I teach (open-mindedness), because we're their parents. I don't need the teachers/school district's moral or immoral agenda to play a role in raising my children, I'm quite capable of helping them along their way. :)
 
K

Kabn

Guest
Pancake Wagon said:
Exactly, which version of creation do you go with?

I took a class in high school that dealt exactly with this. We studies evolution, creationism from the christian viewpoint, a mix of the two, and even a little alien seeding. It was quite a good class. But, I doubt you could find the time in everyone's high school career to dedicate an entire class to just this subject.
yep.

when it comes down to a practical level, it just isn't feasible. that kind of makes me sad, but it makes me even sadder that most kids are taught that evolution is the end-all truth and that everyone who doesn't believe in it is crazy. there are so many holes and inconstencies, but those are overlooked because it's the best science has come up with so far.

teach microevolution and natural selection and leave the origins of life to the philosophers.
 
I

ieyeasu

Guest
BigDov said:
I'm not gonna argue with you either, but you need to come to Oregon sometime and have your eyes opened for you :)

:heart:

I'm in Washington; I seriously doubt you've got anything I'm missing.

Remember--the public school system isn't just about education, it's also about making socialized young people; ready to exist in a society--a society where you'll encounter things that you might consider odd.
 

BigDov

Erect Member
Oct 14, 2004
9,646
3
41
50
close to Seattle
ieyeasu said:
I'm in Washington; I seriously doubt you've got anything I'm missing.

Remember--the public school system isn't just about education, it's also about making socialized young people; ready to exist in a society--a society where you'll encounter things that you might consider odd.


Are you? :eek:

I understand all you're saying and then some. Like I said before, as a parent I've got issues with how my babies are socialized sometimes, that's really the issue in a nutshell for me :)
 

my little brony

Keep Being A Little Bitch
Oct 15, 2004
34,952
18,763
823
BigDov said:
I get too worked up for the debate to be healthy for me, that's all :D

This state tends to be way too liberal for my tastes is all. When my oldest daughter went to public school, no pledge of allegiance, teaching about alternative lifestyles, drugs, etc, and this was in kindergarten. That's just fucking wrong.

I wish that they could find the happy medium around here, that's all. :(

Didn't mean to be snippy either man, sorry :heart:
Nah, you weren't being snippy. There was no heat behind what I said, I was generally curious. I've never been to Oregon :cool: :p

I do agree that certain things should be kept out of school until certain ages. In my eyes, alternative lifestyles should be taught to the point of "Some people make different choices. If you want to know more about them, ask your parents." Same with drugs. "If someone offers you drugs, say no. Talk to your parents about it."

Basically I just don't want teachers to be forced to go "I'm sorry but we can't talk about that in school." Give the kid basic information and then tell them to go to their parents for more. I really hate the way this country places blame on everything and everyone save for the parents. I truly believe that the media, government, violence in video games, all that other bullshit isn't contributing to the downfall of society; it's the lack of parenting. Many parents refuse to take responsibility for their spwan and it sickens me.

You seem to be one that doesn't and while I don't agree with your views, I am however thrilled that you seem to actually care about your kids' development and are being the parent they require.

As far as the pledge goes, I'm iffy on it. To be honest, I didn't mind taking a couple minutes out of the day to say it or listen to everyone else say it. Maybe the teachers should be given the choice? If one doesn't want her class to say it, they don't. If another chooses to have her class say it, they do. There's probably too many problems with that setup though....meh, I dunno. To me the pledge is not that big of a deal.
 
K

Kabn

Guest
FlyNavy said:
what the fuck??

evolution has research to support it

creationism has the bible


creationism has as much a place beside evolution as scientology
macroevolution doesn't. show me in the fossil record where the gradual development of species happened.

oh, wait! we don't have that! we have a record that shows a mass introduction of seemingly new organisms at different intervals. starting to sound familiar?

i could go on about the flaws behind classic examples like vertebrate embryo studies and Miller's origin of life experiment, but i'll just let it be. :D
 

b_sinning

Erect Member
Nov 22, 2004
22,790
47
41
44
Savannah, GA
It's hard to believe with the advancements we have made that people are willing to take a step backwards like this. I know peopel are responding to the moral decline of society by over doing religion at times but this is just too far.
 

my little brony

Keep Being A Little Bitch
Oct 15, 2004
34,952
18,763
823
Kabn said:
macroevolution doesn't. show me in the fossil record where the gradual development of species happened.

oh, wait! we don't have that! we have a record that shows a mass introduction of seemingly new organisms at different intervals. starting to sound familiar?

i could go on about the flaws behind classic examples like vertebrate embryo studies and Miller's origin of life experiment, but i'll just let it be. :D
we don't? so what is there to support evolution? hell, what is there to support the earth being more than 6000 years old?

i'd much sooner believe research than a fiction book written and retranslated half a dozen times. creationism is not a theory, it's an idea, nothing more.
 
FlyNavy said:
Exactly. And those same freedoms should allow a couple of gay guys to marry, yet most people who say what you do (I'm not saying you are, just using your comments as an example) feel that freedom shouldn't extend to things that don't coincide with close minded "values" based on archaic religions.
I'm all for gay marriage, equal rights NOT special rights I say.
 
S

smileynev

Guest
Kabn said:
macroevolution doesn't. show me in the fossil record where the gradual development of species happened.

oh, wait! we don't have that! we have a record that shows a mass introduction of seemingly new organisms at different intervals. starting to sound familiar?

i could go on about the flaws behind classic examples like vertebrate embryo studies and Miller's origin of life experiment, but i'll just let it be. :D
Please, do go on.
 
S

smileynev

Guest
ChikkenNoodul said:
I'm all for gay marriage, equal rights NOT special rights I say.
I'm all for gay civil unions. I'll leave the marriage part up to the churches. Equal rights for all.....except the canadians.
 
S

smileynev

Guest
b_sinning said:
Can't the creationsit just say God made Darwin and started the process of evolution so both sides claim a win?
Thats guided evolution, or whatever the article called it. I am a believer of that, but I think that many religious zealots use it as an in road to full on creationism.
 
K

Kabn

Guest
FlyNavy said:
we don't? so what is there to support evolution? hell, what is there to support the earth being more than 6000 years old?

i'd much sooner believe research than a fiction book written and retranslated half a dozen times. creationism is not a theory, it's an idea, nothing more.
there is a lot to support microevolution and natural selection. we have nuclear and carbon dating to place the earth as much more than six thousand years old. the problem comes when people make the jump from that to shaky-at-best "research" and ever-changing theories about the origins of life and call it solid fact.

i don't know how life started for sure. neither do you or the scientists. but i see evidence for intelligent design all around me. the confusing part is that most of the evidence for intelligent design can also be called evidence for evolution.

i've done a decent amount of study on the subject, and i've come out a parallelism creationist. i've yet to see solid, factual evidence that convinces me we emerges from random proteins floating in water.
 
H

Harper

Guest
b_sinning said:
Can't the creationsit just say God made Darwin and started the process of evolution so both sides claim a win?
hahaha, thats awesome. i love you now.
 
S

smileynev

Guest
Kabn said:
there is a lot to support microevolution and natural selection. we have nuclear and carbon dating to place the earth as much more than six thousand years old. the problem comes when people make the jump from that to shaky-at-best "research" and ever-changing theories about the origins of life and call it solid fact.

i don't know how life started for sure. neither do you or the scientists. but i see evidence for intelligent design all around me. the confusing part is that most of the evidence for intelligent design can also be called evidence for evolution.

i've done a decent amount of study on the subject, and i've come out a parallelism creationist. i've yet to see solid, factual evidence that convinces me we emerges from random proteins floating in water.
We'll find out for sure when Halo 3 comes out.