Thread 5th of November

OzSTEEZ

¡ɟɟo ʞɔnɟ ʇunɔ 'ᴉO
Nov 11, 2008
35,330
9,395
473
40
Oz
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/07/964431/-5th-of-November

Just came across this. Haven't read all of it yet, but it does seem interesting. Definitely commendable to want to take action to improve your nation, but extreme doubt exists in my mind as to the impact this will have.

Regardless, I am interested to hear and discussion your opinions on the proposals. Like I said I haven't read all of it, and already I find a part that I disagree with. The part is where only legal voters are allowed to give to campaign funds. In my opinion it should reworded to bar any funds from any entity going to public sector employees other than their salaries.

What say you?
 

OzSTEEZ

¡ɟɟo ʞɔnɟ ʇunɔ 'ᴉO
Nov 11, 2008
35,330
9,395
473
40
Oz
I think it's universally accepted that this wont come to fruition. But hypothetically if it did, would you completely agree with the provisions?
 

eileenbunny

Druish Princess
May 25, 2005
13,349
2,299
573
46
Columbia, Maryland, United States
Meh, it's okay although the writers have a very poor understanding of campaign finance and how funds get funneled into the pockets of elected officials. I also don't think it addresses all the issues needed to actually change the situation. It's okay for a first draft written over beer and wings. I'd add a lot about changes to mass media and how it is handled. I'd put a cap on the amount of money any person campaigning for office could spend since right now the person who spends the most wins 99% of the time. I think if you want to do campaign reform, finances need to be removed from the equation. It shouldn't be about money at all.
 

fly

Osharts 11
Oct 1, 2004
72,326
23,906
1,073
Steam
mattressfish
Can you elaborate on that?

Oh yeah. Forgot. The Butterfly Effect.

This country is a house of cards and no where as resilient as the sheep seem to believe it is. You can't make quick or large changes, lest the thing come crashing down. And these are large and complicated changes, with unknown and far reaching effects. I quickly browsed it and here's an example: Congress fined for not stating facts. Result: Congress never speaks to ANYONE outside of chambers. Talk about government shutdown...

And these are just dumb things my feeble brain can come up with. This is why "change" will NEVER come to government. There is too much risk in losing everything.
 

dbzeag

Wants to kiss you where it stinks
Jun 9, 2006
17,002
464
548
42
I hope we do lose everything. I'm not afraid of starting over.

But you have little to lose starting over. A politician loses his money AND power when the gov. gives up and starts over. That's far too much to give.
 

dbzeag

Wants to kiss you where it stinks
Jun 9, 2006
17,002
464
548
42
Oh yeah. Forgot. The Butterfly Effect.

This country is a house of cards and no where as resilient as the sheep seem to believe it is. You can't make quick or large changes, lest the thing come crashing down. And these are large and complicated changes, with unknown and far reaching effects. I quickly browsed it and here's an example: Congress fined for not stating facts. Result: Congress never speaks to ANYONE outside of chambers. Talk about government shutdown...

And these are just dumb things my feeble brain can come up with. This is why "change" will NEVER come to government. There is too much risk in losing everything.

And facts by who? Congressmen and women do not just state undocumented fallacies. I would wager over 90% of what a Congressperson says is from SOME documented fact, whether right or wrong, they can successfully cite the statement. Proving a fact is indeed correct or not is more important than just saying you can only speak in facts. They use "facts" when they built the Creation museum.
 

fly

Osharts 11
Oct 1, 2004
72,326
23,906
1,073
Steam
mattressfish
And facts by who? Congressmen and women do not just state undocumented fallacies. I would wager over 90% of what a Congressperson says is from SOME documented fact, whether right or wrong, they can successfully cite the statement. Proving a fact is indeed correct or not is more important than just saying you can only speak in facts. They use "facts" when they built the Creation museum.

ok
 

fly

Osharts 11
Oct 1, 2004
72,326
23,906
1,073
Steam
mattressfish
I hope we do lose everything. I'm not afraid of starting over.

But you have little to lose starting over. A politician loses his money AND power when the gov. gives up and starts over. That's far too much to give.

Unless you're armed to the teeth, we ALL have something to lose. We're talking about a breakdown of our entire society here. This IS a big deal.
 

OzSTEEZ

¡ɟɟo ʞɔnɟ ʇunɔ 'ᴉO
Nov 11, 2008
35,330
9,395
473
40
Oz
Oh yeah. Forgot. The Butterfly Effect.

This country is a house of cards and no where as resilient as the sheep seem to believe it is. You can't make quick or large changes, lest the thing come crashing down. And these are large and complicated changes, with unknown and far reaching effects. I quickly browsed it and here's an example: Congress fined for not stating facts. Result: Congress never speaks to ANYONE outside of chambers. Talk about government shutdown...

And these are just dumb things my feeble brain can come up with. This is why "change" will NEVER come to government. There is too much risk in losing everything.

Going on what you are saying, would it not be an plausible idea to tear the entire government down and start all over again?
 

fly

Osharts 11
Oct 1, 2004
72,326
23,906
1,073
Steam
mattressfish
Going on what you are saying, would it not be an plausible idea to tear the entire government down and start all over again?

Oh, I'd love to. However, due to the resulting confusion, I think things would QUICKLY devolve. Dawkins mentioned in a book of his awhile ago a story about a (Canadian?) town where the police went on strike for like 2 days. Murders, robberies, and rapes skyrocketed. Not only do I imagine that happening, but the entire infrastructure breaking down. No power, no refrigeration, no gas, looting, rioting - pretty much everything we take for granted.

That doesn't sound fun at all.