22 Dead and 21 Wounded at VA Tech

I do own a drawer full of nice sharp knives. I also have several baseball bats (wooden and metal) inside my house (kid plays ball).

I don't know many people who sit around watching tv or sleep with a gun on their actual person. If you can get to your gun you can get to some other type of weapon to defend yourself.

I also own a pretty large dog (80lbs), that I feel if I were scared enough (which they can sense) would also help me out.

So no, I don't feel the need to keep a gun (which my child or his friends could shoot each other with) inside my home.

I also have ADT.

With all due respect, are you strong enough to fight off a 260 pound former linebacker that just got done serving a six year prison sentence where all he did was lift weights and get more pissed off at the world? Even with a knife you'd need some genuine skill in close quarters combat to be absolutely sure you'd win. With a gun your chances of neutralizing your attacker before he's within range to do harm to you increase dramatically.

If you don't feel the need to keep a gun inside your home, wonderful. If you live in a neighborhood where you feel that safe then you made the right decision in finding a good place to live. However please don't think that if the worst should happen your 80 pound dogs can't be subdued by 180 pound men or that ADT will do much more than call the police for you. Unless you have their Instant Ninja package, in which case you have nothing to worry about. :D

As for your child, the only way he could shoot himself is if you didn't teach him properly. :heart: Another story from another forum:


Classic example--My son has grown up with all manner of weapons in the house. Since he could walk the rule about EVERYTHING has always been if he wants to see something, to just tell me and we'd sit down together and spend as long as he wants looking at it. The first time was with a sword he wanted a better look at--I think he was about 3 years old. It's been that way ever since. He knows every weapon I own intimately because from the very beginning the mystery was gone and traded in for careful reality.

This paid off in so many ways, it's not even funny--even though one particular incident is a bit humorous in its own right. I went to visit an old acquaintence a while back, and in no time discussion turned to guns--it always did. So he breaks open the safe to show off a few things since the last time I'd seen him. My son spots a fancied-up 1911 and asked to see it. The guy shrugs, looks at me for the nod, and hands it to him. Instinctively, my son drops the mag, racks the slide--and ejects the live round . The guys eyes got huge and he said the classic words--"Sorry, I didn't think that one was loaded". My son glared at him and said "Yah, well I didn't see you check, so I did. Good thing, huh?" THAT'S MY BOY! Oh, and I should mention--he's 11 now.
As much as I wanted to give my "friend" a tongue-lashing for such a moment of stupidity, I couldn't even begin to match the effect my son's simple statement had on him.


I knew what to do about guns when I was a kid. If your child is a friend's house and their friend says "come check out my dad's gun!" I have no doubt you've taught your kid to get the hell out of there. But some parents haven't and those kids are inherently curious. A kid that knows how guns work and isn't afraid of them will not only not be so curious as to outweigh his parent's instructions of "GTFO ASAP" but will also be able to keep himself and the other kids safe if they find one lying around.
 
The biggest fallacy on the planet is the belief that laws, or any law, protects people from being a victim. A law details a certain punishment for a crime... the crime already having been committed. Believing laws protect you is the same utter absurdity that labeling something a 'gun free zone' actually insures a zone will be gun free.

So, the difference (in reality) between people arming themselves and not arming themselves is the difference between a person that refuses to automatically become a victim and a person who simply hopes the police catch the person who killed them; but, they being subsequently dead, probably would just prefer some hand-wringing an 'koombyah' singing.

Remember the town that voted a mandatory firearm ownership law:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

:eek:
 
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Unless you have their Instant Ninja package, in which case you have nothing to worry about. :D

whachu talkin bout ... I AM the instant ninja package :fly:


As for your child, the only way he could shoot himself is if you didn't teach him properly.

It's not so much mine I would worry about, as opposed to his friend who comes over and "wants to see it". Kids don't always do what they are taught .. especially when they are trying to look "cool".
 
Well that's my opinion on the matter (I don't personally think guns solve anything myself. They may be cool to own and shoot and what not, but when violence is concerned, I don't think they are an end to any means .. just the beginning to another one. We aren't judges or jury's .. which is what a lot of this amount to imo. We have laws to protect us from ourselves .. because some of us (not saying all or most) can't deal with all that responsibility that is given to us.) .. and you have yours.

I'm not trying to sit here and try to convince you, just simply stating an opinion on the matter (and not necessarily just towards the school shooting(s) ) .. cas you aren't going to convince me.

I'm not against guns at all. I've never shot one, but I'd like to at some point. All my friends seem to think it's fun, I'd like to see what the hype is about. But I also don't feel the need to have one in my home or my car. If you do, fine .. that is your gov given choice.

But the problem is .. people don't just keep them on their property .. just like they don't keep their cars, boats, and jetskis .. they normally take them out in public at some point .. to use them.

My point with the gas and ATM's .. it doesn't matter WHY there is a limit .. just matters that there is ... the reason is mute. We still have to live with the limitations and work around it. And as of yet, it hasn't killed us. :)


Ammo is cheaper in bulk. It can also be cost effective to reuse/reload casings yourself. My uncle buys 1000 rounds at a time. He's a great guy, you will like him. While this is really beside the point, I am appealing to the thrifty-minded SRC. You'll most likely hear the same, similar or vaguely reminiscent comments from me that you have read from the other people in this thread.


Is that on topic enough :p
 
damnit .. ontopic threads :lol:

My mother side overrules my thrifty side lol. You can say it all you want .. won't make me believe it tho :). YOu can put your guns in your car when Drake comes over :).
 
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damnit .. ontopic threads :lol:

My mother side overrules my thrifty side lol. You can say it all you want .. won't make me believe it tho :). YOu can put your guns in your car when Drake comes over :).
Points are not mute, they are moot*

There is a heavy history of why ammunition is not heavily restricted in this country, look up the 1986 amendment to the 1968 'Gun Control Act'. Saying a point is 'mute' [sic] doesnt make it so. You made an incredibly bad analogy that got shot down in a large fireball, dont run from it now. Finally, most firearm practice gets done on private property, unlike anything else you named.

The reason to not give an inch is because federal gun laws are only out numbered in quantity by the tax code. It is a death by 1000 cuts strategy dating back to the 1930s. You can call up your local ATF field office and have them send you a copy of your applicable state and federal laws, which seems fine, but oh snap, they are allowed to make up interpretations on the spot for 'public good' so it really doesnt matter what is written down... I disgress though.

In the end you are blaming some device for all this evil which misses the entire point. The OT for this thread was known to have a few screws loose, there were numerous chances for someone to do something about it aside from coddle him. Every example you bring up is a red herring; a shit load of stuff can happen but there is no way you can prevent it all or even conceptualize it before it happens. The only thing you do by restricting ownership of something is make a LAW. When a person decides they are going to shoot up someplace, the fact it is against the law to have this this and this -is- rather a 'moot' point.

and frankly: if you dont know what your kids are doing, it's your fault. There is no such thing as an expectation of safety when it comes to children.
 
Really ... so am I supposed to watch his every move once he turns 14-15 *that's the age I deem him old enough for me to leave him completely alone inside the house)? I can't leave him alone at all?

I'm sure he'll love that.

You can't watch kids 24/7 .. it's an impossible task, unless you keep them locked in a cage. Parents have to sleep, they go outside to do yardwork, and they watch tv, and they go to the grocery store, and out to eat .. they even go out of town for the weekend.

They have plenty of time to do things they shouldn't. Become a parent before trying to tell people how to be one please.
 
Really ... so am I supposed to watch his every move once he turns 14-15 *that's the age I deem him old enough for me to leave him completely alone inside the house)? I can't leave him alone at all?

I'm sure he'll love that.

You can't watch kids 24/7 .. it's an impossible task, unless you keep them locked in a cage. Parents have to sleep, they go outside to do yardwork, and they watch tv, and they go to the grocery store, and out to eat .. they even go out of town for the weekend.

They have plenty of time to do things they shouldn't. Become a parent before trying to tell people how to be one please.



I would hope that the child rearing for the previous 15 years is what gives you the option of leaving him alone, not an arbitrary number. It may also give you a pretty good idea of what is being done or not done by a child even if you don't have him sitting in front of you.
 
Really ... so am I supposed to watch his every move once he turns 14-15 *that's the age I deem him old enough for me to leave him completely alone inside the house)? I can't leave him alone at all?

I'm sure he'll love that.

You can't watch kids 24/7 .. it's an impossible task, unless you keep them locked in a cage. Parents have to sleep, they go outside to do yardwork, and they watch tv, and they go to the grocery store, and out to eat .. they even go out of town for the weekend.

They have plenty of time to do things they shouldn't. Become a parent before trying to tell people how to be one please.
Perfect, this is the whiny excuse I was expecting. Though you only addressed ONE point that was added on as an afterthought.

So... let's pick a number, and call that the age when you are no longer responsible. Everything you just said boils down to that. You are just going to wash your hands of it. 'I cant watch them so everyone else has to make sacrifices.'

Personal/Parental responsibility much? The obvious thrust of my previous post was obviously that 'kids do shit' is an excuse. You train them to behave even when you arent around to be holding their hand. As an example, I had the fear of God from my parents as a child and I'm not even sure why. You don't fuck with what your mother says or she'll likely beat you bloody with a ladle, and more importantly she'll be upset if you die. I still don't do stuff my mother told me not to when I was 8 o_O

How do you think you know I don't have kids? I can already hear the answer for this though, something along the lines of 'if you did you'd know better.' For the record I have 3 younger brothers. Two of whom are teenagers. They don't mouth off to me anymore... But yes.

Again, you missed that whole thing in the third paragraph of my last post. We've already established you're a holier than thou communist though.

I would hope that the child rearing for the previous 15 years is what gives you the option of leaving him alone, not an arbitrary number. It may also give you a pretty good idea of what is being done or not done by a child even if you don't have him sitting in front of you.

You have to stop posting what I am about to post. I have to watch TV sometimes :(
 
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Back!

I totally agree with the many statements that nothing is going to change. But I do think that the best thing to do is allowed trained people to own weapons on campus. The safest point is when 100% of all guns are gone. The next safest is when 0% are gone. From 0 to 100 the danger increases until it falls off radically at that last point. As long as there are "gun-free zones" that aren't protected as rigorously as an airplane is, there will be mass-murders there.

Also:

They do.

If you use a debit card most places won't let you get over $75 worth, with a credit card it's $100. Cash is whatever you want though.

They limit you to getting $300 of your own money from an ATM and that's ok .. but by god if I wanna buy enough ammo to shoot 100 people .. LET ME!

:lol: wonderful

Who "they" are makes a big difference to me. A company doing things that make it money only needs to not be expressly immoral in its actions, to me. The government should be called to something higher. If I don't like the way ATMs work or gas station limits, I can start my own and try it my way and let the market decide if it's right. Making my own government? Not so much. :fly:
 
Perfect, this is the whiny excuse I was expecting. Though you only addressed ONE point that was added on as an afterthought.

So... let's pick a number, and call that the age when you are no longer responsible. Everything you just said boils down to that. You are just going to wash your hands of it. 'I cant watch them so everyone else has to make sacrifices.'

Personal/Parental responsibility much? The obvious thrust of my previous post was obviously that 'kids do shit' is an excuse. You train them to behave even when you arent around to be holding their hand. As an example, I had the fear of God from my parents as a child and I'm not even sure why. You don't fuck with what your mother says or she'll likely beat you bloody with a ladle, and more importantly she'll be upset if you die. I still don't do stuff my mother told me not to when I was 8 o_O

How do you think you know I don't have kids? I can already hear the answer for this though, something along the lines of 'if you did you'd know better.' For the record I have 3 younger brothers. Two of whom are teenagers. They don't mouth off to me anymore... But yes.

Again, you missed that whole thing in the third paragraph of my last post. We've already established you're a holier than thou communist though.



You have to stop posting what I am about to post. I have to watch TV sometimes :(

do you think the parents of the shooter raised him that way? you have no idea what you're talking about

edit: it's not that guns and children can't peacefully coexist in a home, you just have to lock them up at all times(not doing so is essentially russian roulette imo) which in effect pretty much nullifies the effectiveness of having said weapon(s)..."excuse me for a moment mr. rapist sir while I go find my keys and make a trip to the gun safe"
 
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do you think the parents of the shooter raised him that way? you have no idea what you're talking about

edit: it's not that guns and children can't peacefully coexist in a home, you just have to lock them up at all times(not doing so is essentially russian roulette imo) which in effect pretty much nullifies the effectiveness of having said weapon(s)..."excuse me for a moment mr. rapist sir while I go find my keys and make a trip to the gun safe"

He wasn't arguing with how the shooter happened to be raised. He was arguing the stance of "they're kids, I have no control over them".

There are quick access combination gun boxes that are easy enough to get into quickly for those who know the combination, but near impossible for those who do not (they even make some with fingerprint biometrics now). So you're arguement of "if it's locked up it's worthless for self-defense anyway" doesn't wash.
 
You can have guns in houses with kids. If the kid shoots themselves it is the neglagence of the parents not using proper gun logic.

It's like leaving out the windex with a kid that puts everything in it's mouth. My mom did that and I went to the emergency room.

It's just plain good parenting is all you need.

Edit: and it is a MUST to educate your kids on guns. MUST MUST MUST
 
People don't stop killers. People with guns do

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By GLENN REYNOLDS

Wednesday, April 18th 2007, 4:00 AM


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On Monday, as the news of the Virginia Tech shootings was unfolding, I went into my advanced constitutional law seminar to find one of my students upset. My student, Tara Wyllie, has a permit to carry a gun in Tennessee, but she isn't allowed to have a weapon on campus. That left her feeling unsafe. "Why couldn't we meet off campus today?" she asked.

Virginia Tech graduate student Bradford Wiles also has a permit to carry a gun, in Virginia. But on the day of the shootings, he would have been unarmed for the same reason: Like the University of Tennessee, where I teach, Virginia Tech bans guns on campus.

In The Roanoke Times last year - after another campus incident, when a dangerous escaped inmate was roaming the campus - Wiles wrote that, when his class was evacuated, "Of all of the emotions and thoughts that were running through my head that morning, the most overwhelming one was of helplessness. That feeling of helplessness has been difficult to reconcile because I knew I would have been safer with a proper means to defend myself."

Wiles reported that when he told a professor how he felt, the professor responded that she would have felt safer if he had had a gun, too.

What's more, she would have been safer. That's how I feel about my student (one of a few I know who have gun carry permits), as well. She's a responsible adult; I trust her not to use her gun improperly, and if something bad happened, I'd want her to be armed because I trust her to respond appropriately, making the rest of us safer.

Virginia Tech doesn't have that kind of trust in its students (or its faculty, for that matter). Neither does the University of Tennessee. Both think that by making their campuses "gun-free," they'll make people safer, when in fact they're only disarming the people who follow rules, law-abiding people who are no danger at all.

This merely ensures that the murderers have a free hand. If there were more responsible, armed people on campuses, mass murder would be harder.

In fact, some mass shootings have been stopped by armed citizens. Though press accounts downplayed it, the 2002 shooting at Appalachian Law School was stopped when a student retrieved a gun from his car and confronted the shooter. Likewise, Pearl, Miss., school shooter Luke Woodham was stopped when the school's vice principal took a .45 fromhis truck and ran to the scene. In February's Utah mall shooting, it was an off-duty police officer who happened to be on the scene and carrying a gun.

Police can't be everywhere, and as incidents from Columbine to Virginia Tech demonstrate, by the time they show up at a mass shooting, it's usually too late. On the other hand, one group of people is, by definition, always on the scene: the victims. Only if they're armed, they may wind up not being victims at all.

"Gun-free zones" are premised on a fantasy: That murderers will follow rules, and that people like my student, or Bradford Wiles, are a greater danger to those around them than crazed killers like Cho Seung-hui. That's an insult. Sometimes, it's a deadly one.

Reynolds is Beauchamp Brogan distinguished professor of law at the University of Tennessee. He is the author of the book "An Army of Davids" and blogs at instapundit.com.
 
The Nanny State:

Mommy and daddy want more so both work. Parents want the government or businesses to give us child care. Then, when the children are teens, they want the government to control TV with the V-chip and constrain the internet. Parents don't want to follow up on their child's homework so they want billions for 'no child left behind'. Parents are not home when children get home from school so they want gun confiscation or, as a minimum, gun lock laws. Then they send their children, who pretty much raised themselves, off to college... The child who was nurtured by daycare, left to their own devices as teens, are now given the extra delusional protection of a gun free zone.

That pretty much sums it up. Thank God my sons had a parent waiting at home for them when they got off the bus. They were made to do homework and were raised around an always accessible firearm.

Don't give me the crap about how you need two incomes to get by. It is really all about choices. You either raise your own children or you chase the all mighty dollar and believe in the delusions of the Nanny State. VA Tech is the result of when the Nanny State collides with reality.
 
The Nanny State:

Mommy and daddy want more so both work. Parents want the government or businesses to give us child care. Then, when the children are teens, they want the government to control TV with the V-chip and constrain the internet. Parents don't want to follow up on their child's homework so they want billions for 'no child left behind'. Parents are not home when children get home from school so they want gun confiscation or, as a minimum, gun lock laws. Then they send their children, who pretty much raised themselves, off to college... The child who was nurtured by daycare, left to their own devices as teens, are now given the extra delusional protection of a gun free zone.

That pretty much sums it up. Thank God my sons had a parent waiting at home for them when they got off the bus. They were made to do homework and were raised around an always accessible firearm.

Don't give me the crap about how you need two incomes to get by. It is really all about choices. You either raise your own children or you chase the all mighty dollar and believe in the delusions of the Nanny State. VA Tech is the result of when the Nanny State collides with reality.

I completely agree.
 
do you think the parents of the shooter raised him that way? you have no idea what you're talking about

edit: it's not that guns and children can't peacefully coexist in a home, you just have to lock them up at all times(not doing so is essentially russian roulette imo) which in effect pretty much nullifies the effectiveness of having said weapon(s)..."excuse me for a moment mr. rapist sir while I go find my keys and make a trip to the gun safe"
What? Did you even read my post? ENGLISH!

Edit:
Knyte said:
He wasn't arguing with how the shooter happened to be raised. He was arguing the stance of "they're kids, I have no control over them".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

On a side note: I should be dead according to this thread :lol: There was an unloaded and unlocked shotgun in the front hall my entire childhood. It was just another 'thing' though, and everyone else had guns in their house as well. The only times I can remember hurting myself are running through a plate glass door and mixing bleach with ammonia because I was trying to make nitrogen trichloride...
 
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