Ontopic The Shooting Thread

@HipHugHer

This isn't about whether most white people can go about their day without being outright supremacist or going on a supremacism-motivated killing spree, that's a low bar. This is about average "not racist" white people supporting white supremacist policies and politicians. The President ran his campaign largely on supremacist ideas, and continues to use them in power. The most charitable explanation is that these aren't a dealbreaker for a whole lot of people. Why is that? This administration has already kidnapped brown children with seemingly no intent of ever returning them, that's inexcusable but there are plenty of people willing to carry water for it and not recognize how truly horrendous that is.

The majority of white Americans *know* that racism is bad, but many don't seem to fully understand racism or possess the ability to recognize it. When someone or something they tend to agree with is deemed racist by an "out" group they react viscerally because they see themselves as good people and racism is bad, so they feel attacked. This is a country founded on white supremacy, enshrined in our founding documents, so it's deeply and subtly entwined within it. People who are "in" and thus not directly effected by this are not innately going to understand that "the way things are" is racist, that's what is referred to as privilege blindness. The racism inherent in the system has been reworked with changing times in order to grant it's tacit supporters plausible deniability.

The President and his party run on white supremacism, he just recently threatened about how dangerous the bikers and military that like him could be. He's winking and nodding, the people who care about racism (either for or against) have recognized this and keep pointing it out. What you see as inconsistent in this shooter's ideas is just the fundamental racism stripped of the niceties that our society uses to hide the darkness at its core, which we are all indoctrinated into unwittingly.

To be clear, white supremacy is not solely the domain of the GOP but they have increasingly upped the rhetoric and chosen to get in bed with the out-and-out supremacists in the face of changing demographics, in pursuit of power.

When many are latently supremacist (or okay with supremacism) because that's just what our society imparts, it can be hard to recognize or accept that such could be the case. It's a spectrum of behavior and beliefs: the "random" violent methods serve the non-violent actors of supremacy in power.
 
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@HipHugHer

This isn't about whether most white people can go about their day without being outright supremacist or going on a supremacism-motivated killing spree, that's a low bar. This is about average "not racist" white people supporting white supremacist policies and politicians. The President ran his campaign largely on supremacist ideas, and continues to use them in power. The most charitable explanation is that these aren't a dealbreaker for a whole lot of people. Why is that? This administration has already kidnapped brown children with seemingly no intent of ever returning them, that's inexcusable but there are plenty of people willing to carry water for it and not recognize how truly horrendous that is.

The majority of white Americans *know* that racism is bad, but many don't seem to fully understand racism or possess the ability to recognize it. When someone or something they tend to agree with is deemed racist by an "out" group they react viscerally because they see themselves as good people and racism is bad, so they feel attacked. This is a country founded on white supremacy, enshrined in our founding documents, so it's deeply and subtly entwined within it. People who are "in" and thus not directly effected by this are not innately going to understand that "the way things are" is racist, that's what is referred to as privilege blindness. The racism inherent in the system has been reworked with changing times in order to grant it's tacit supporters plausible deniability.

The President and his party run on white supremacism, he just recently threatened about how dangerous the bikers and military that like him could be. He's winking and nodding, the people who care about racism (either for or against) have recognized this and keep pointing it out. What you see as inconsistent in this shooter's ideas is just the fundamental racism stripped of the niceties that our society uses to hide the darkness at its core, which we are all indoctrinated into unwittingly.

To be clear, white supremacy is not solely the domain of the GOP but they have increasingly upped the rhetoric and chosen to get in bed with the out-and-out supremacists in the face of changing demographics, in pursuit of power.

When many are latently supremacist (or okay with supremacism) because that's just what our society imparts, it can be hard to recognize or accept that such could be the case. It's a spectrum of behavior and beliefs: the "random" violent methods serve the non-violent actors of supremacy in power.

You see some sort of supremacist, active, passive, or otherwise, around every corner and behind every bush. Got it. I don't see that. I see a very very small but loud minority that the vast, vast majority of people of any political stripe or no stripe at all absolutely disdain.

Not burning another afternoon on this, as if the rantings of a lunatic are somehow valid.

In the end, the guys goal was to sow political, social, and especially racial discord, division, violence, and hate. I choose not to participate and give him what he wants but don't let that stop you.
 
It's a huge mystery why people who think many black people are only where they are because of Affirmative Action or tokenism refuse to recognize blatant white supremacy, just a massive enigma.
 
I refuse to feel guilty about being white-ish.
BOT - don't shoot me.

You filthy invaders have diluted my culture with such abominations as pizza, stromboli, lasagna, and fettuccine. This shall not stand! Verbal discourse achieves nothing! Violence of action alone is required to right this wrong! Who's with me!
 
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That would be as dumb as thinking it makes you inherently different from someone who fails the paper bag test.
10 months of the year I would definitely fail.:p I'm right at that tipping point - I'm white around most POC, I'm just some swarthy fuck when around WASPs.

@HipHugHer
The majority of white Americans *know* that racism is bad, but many don't seem to fully understand racism or possess the ability to recognize it. When someone or something they tend to agree with is deemed racist by an "out" group they react viscerally because they see themselves as good people and racism is bad, so they feel attacked.
That right there, amongst other posting you've made make me think you suffer white guilt to the point of being an apologist about it. Like you think "that majority of white Americans *know* that racism is bad," actually deserve to be attacked. Yourself included. And fuck our feeling of being attacked.
 
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10 months of the year I would definitely fail.:p I'm right at that tipping point - I'm white around most POC, I'm just some swarthy fuck when around WASPs.

That right there, amongst other posting you've made make me think you suffer white guilt to the point of being an apologist about it. Like you think "that majority of white Americans *know* that racism is bad," actually deserve to be attacked. Yourself included. And fuck our feeling of being attacked.
"White guilt" is projection. Why would I feel guilty over something I have no control of?

My point was that the good response to having something pointed out as racist is "racism is bad so I won't do this racist thing" rather than "racism is bad and I am good therefore nothing I do can be racist", but that requires reflecting and acknowledging that you did something bad which could cause one to feel the pain of guilt.
 
"White guilt" is projection. Why would I feel guilty over something I have no control of?

My point was that the good response to having something pointed out as racist is "racism is bad so I won't do this racist thing" rather than "racism is bad and I am good therefore nothing I do can be racist", but that requires reflecting and acknowledging that you did something bad which could cause one to feel the pain of guilt.
Still sounds like you think most white people are racist and doing racist things but just oblivious.

Not sure what "something" you mean - the white guilt imo you project or a belief that you are inherently racist because you're white, even if you are arguably good. Both of those could be within your control. Or maybe you're trying to say I'm a racist and I'm just projecting my guilt onto you. :oops:
 
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It's the ivory tower speak. It assumes entirely contrived, holier-than-thou pre-conditions that insure (ensure?) perceived dominance of radical opinion.
 
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Still sounds like you think most white people are racist and doing racist things but just oblivious.

Not sure what "something" you mean - the white guilt imo you project or a belief that you are inherently racist because you're white, even if you are arguably good. Both of those could be within your control. Or maybe you're trying to say I'm a racist and I'm just projecting my guilt onto you. :oops:
Have you ever done something bad without intending to or even realizing you were doing a bad thing at the time? I know I have and I'm only 25. Now imagine that you've never even been given the knowledge necessary to identify the bad thing as bad, and lots of other people around you do the bad thing and nobody says it's bad. That's how white supremacy in the US works.

I don't feel guilty for being white, I can't control that. ("You" was meant as generalized in that and this post) If you've gone your whole life unwittingly doing bad things and someone tells you that these things you do are bad, you might feel guilty for doing bad things. Feeling guilty feels bad so lots of people get defensive instead of learning and not doing the bad things in the future: they'll say shit like "this was never a problem before, they're just making things up now" when it has always been a problem, they just didn't know.

There's a selfish motivation on my part here, as my life is worse as long as white supremacy is a force within our nation. White supremacy is the main tool by which the oligarchs maintain power and oppress everyone else. As long as the masses can see that others have it worse, they are okay with getting a raw deal. That's how "divide and conquer" works in our country.

There is no possibility of Trump (whose big introduction to political popularity was claiming the first black President wasn't even a "real" American) becoming President without a lot of people who are at the very least okay with racism, and really just every form of bigotry.
 
There's a selfish motivation on my part here, as my life is worse as long as white supremacy is a force within our nation. White supremacy is the main tool by which the oligarchs maintain power and oppress everyone else.
So very true. IF nothing else, it adds an unnecessary element of tension and distrust to so many interactions. Making life more dangerous for all parties concerned.
 
There isn’t an answer. We should just give up on making schools safer. I suggest making it not illegal to shoot classmates or kids in school. That way the coppers won’t be inconvenienced when calls come in, and eventually the calls will stop.

Maybe a couple times with zero survivors will cause a reaction, but it seems unlikely.