Schooling

[Shalimar]

What are your thoughts on the public education system?

Standardized testing?


Public vouchers ?


Private schools? Private religious schools?

The (FL) class size amendment?


Teacher salaries? and why, when 99% of the people I meet say "teachers should be paid more", they don't??

Spanking in schools (which we cant do here in FL)?

NCLB: No Child Left Behind?

[Dharma1521]

I went to private school so my views are somewhat jaded.

What are your thoughts on the public education system? I remember going from a private school to two years in public school. I went from a B average to an A+, so from that experience I don't think highly of a public school education.

Private schools? Private religious schools? I went to a private religious school and didn't agree with the religious aspect but I am glad that I did recieve the education that I did. It made the transition to college much easier than some of my friends that went to public school.

Teacher salaries? and why, when 99% of the people I meet say "teachers should be paid more", they don't?? Because people don't want to pay more taxes? Teacher's should be paid more! Maybe if teachers made double what they do now (a whopping 60k instead of 30k) they wouldn't mind all the random crap they have to deal with.

Spanking in schools (which we cant do here in FL)? Spank the brats.

[April40]

Instead of spanking, can we do it the Cesar Milan way and snip our hands at the child's neck. Tss Tss

[theacoustician]

I'm going to make this quick because I'm sure that this will be a long thread and I'll have more time to post later.

Standardized testing is a joke. It tests nothing except the ability of the teacher to instruct the students in how to take a standardized test.

If they start handing out public vouchers, than I want them too even though I have no children. Parents seem to forget that its not just their money that goes into public schools. Its also non-parent tax payers and businesses that fund the public education system. If you want to do vouchers, then just dismantle the entire public education system.

Teachers can start low because there are a lot of them that are nothing more than glorified baby sitters. They get paid what they're worth. However, there seems to be no system for promoting and rewarding the teachers that actually do a good job. This needs to change. Just about every other job hands out performance bonuses, teachers deserve them as well. It would give them an incentive to actually work hard and teach. If you can prove that your students actually learned, then you should be rewarded.

NCLB lowers the bar for everyone, or at least that has been the practical result. People just need to accept that not every kid is meant to get a PhD. If you start to get a student that's failing out of the classic model of schooling, then you should try training them in a more vocational way. Most of these kids are simply bored and giving them something more hands on and practical will make them want to learn. If they fail out of that, chances are they're just lazy and don't care. At that point, I don't think any more resources should be wasted on them.

[BeerAd]

What are your thoughts on the public education system?

My High School experience was nothing but a joke. I took 3 1/2 years of French and passed all classes yet I cant speak it for shit. I missed over 100 days in my senior year(2nd highest in TS history) out of 180. For half the year 3 out of 4 of my classes were wood shop and we watched movies(happy gilmore, billy madison ect). The "hardest senior class" was English but my buddy Doms parents ran the company the teacher worked for in her off time, I got a B for never coming in.

Standardized testing?

Complete joke


The (FL) class size amendment?

I dont know what amendment this is but hopefully its to lower class sizes. We would always have someone just say "here" for us cause teachers would never notice.


Teacher salaries? and why, when 99% of the people I meet say "teachers should be paid more", they don't??

This is tricky because maybe if we paid them more they would care more. Or should we pay them less because they never seem to give a shit. I am not saying this as a broad generalization but they definatly could care less in Tarpon.


Spanking in schools (which we cant do here in FL)?

I wish I got beat in school, i might have learned myself a thang or toooo

[ChikkenNoodul]

After a point, it only exists to keep children from entering the workforce too early.

[BeerAd]

After a point, it only exists to keep children from entering the workforce too early.

I still work for the same guy that I did when I was 15, lol.

[sabrina]

What are your thoughts on the public education system?


First off, I don't know much about the US public school system and how it progressed because I moved here when I was about to go into the 6th grade. I didn't speak a word of English when I moved, and skipped right onto 7th grade, and didn't take the ESL program. Once I got the hang of the language, about three months into the school, I started to realize how far behind the US system was. I skipped a grade, yet the math they were teaching was about two years behind what I learned in fifth grade. Sad.

I honestly think that the public Jr. high - high school system here is in a pretty sad state. Colleges, however, are great.


Standardized testing?

I personally never took the SATs because I went to a school that didn't require them. However, there seems to be too much of an emphasis on them. Really, all they test is how much you've studied for them, not what you know. I remember when I was in Israel, though, they made you take IQ tests for just about everything - education, employment, everything. I don't really have an opinion here, I guess. I have no idea if they really work or not to weed out people who are not as capable. Probably not.


Public vouchers ?

I'm not really sure what these are



Private schools? Private religious schools?


I definitely have nothing against them. They accommodate a more specific audience than public school. I wish I had the opportunity to go to a private school that's more concentrated on teaching arts.


The (FL) class size amendment?

No idea what this is. If it restricts class sizes to no larger than a certain amount - good.


Teacher salaries? and why, when 99% of the people I meet say "teachers should be paid more", they don't??

I'm in CA and teacher salaries here are ridiculously low. It's sad. Honestly, I think that being a teacher should be a prestigious thing, and it should pay a decent amount. It shouldn't make you a fortune, but it should allow you to live comfortably. And teachers should be better qualified. I had about 1 great teacher out of 10 horrible ones in high school, and I went to one of the best high schools in CA supposedly.


Spanking in schools (which we cant do here in FL)?

What? Umm, no. It's up to the parent how they want to discipline their children. That's fucked up if they let teachers do that.


NCLB: No Child Left Behind?

No idea what that is.

[sabrina]

Also, that law that makes it so you can't fire a teacher once they've worked for a certain amount of years needs to go. There is one teacher that still teaches at my old high school who obviously had some sort of mental breakdown many years ago, and should NOT be teaching children. The guy is messed up.

[BeerAd]

I moved here in 4th grade. By 6th grade here I was finally learning what I left in 4th grade there. Go figure.

[fly]

What are your thoughts on the public education system?

Its really sad. The entire system needs an overhaul. Some country, some where, HAS to be doing it correctly.

Standardized testing?

Also a joke. We all know a smart person who is just horrible at taking tests. Not only does it cause undue stress on the children, it is no where even close to a dashboard of our youth's level of education.


Public vouchers ?

Maybe every child should be given a voucher and the entire system privatized. I dunno, this current system in Florida is a joke. It punishes the schools who OBVIOUSLY need the most help (according to a test anyway...)


Private schools? Private religious schools?
I don't give a shit. They can do whatever they want. Capitalism++

The (FL) class size amendment?
An AWESOME idea. I just wish the voters would actually PAY for it.

Teacher salaries? and why, when 99% of the people I meet say "teachers should be paid more", they don't??
I have a shitload of friends who are or were teachers. They get paid shit money for all the work they put into it. Mostly people say that cause "thats what you're supposed to say." In reality, all people think about is how we're paying them to have summers off.

Spanking in schools (which we cant do here in FL)?

NCLB: No Child Left Behind?
If I had a child, school spankings would be required. Nothing kept me inline more as a kid than the threat of Mr. Goforth spanking me. It really worked. Kids are like puppies, you have to mould them with physical repercussions, because they are too young to understand social repercussions or distant repercussions.

And finally, I sadly know next to nothing about NCLB. :(

[Shalimar]

NCLB is w's federal law that requires 3rd graders to be reading on grade level before they can move on to 4th.. there may be other grades affected as well, but 3rd's the only one off top i remem.. or have exposure to firsthand..

here at my elem school.. bec of this law.. we have 3 fifth grade classes, 4 4th, .... and 7 3rd grade classes!!! .. the ol' logjam.. soon we'll have fifth graders with goatees driving to school.. i'm only marginally exagerating..

[BeerAd]

NCLB is w's federal law that requires 3rd graders to be reading on grade level before they can move on to 4th.. there may be other grades affected as well, but 3rd's the only one off top i remem.. or have exposure to firsthand..

here at my elem school.. bec of this law.. we have 3 fifth grade classes, 4 4th, .... and 7 3rd grade classes!!! .. the ol' logjam.. soon we'll have fifth graders with goatees driving to school.. i'm only marginally exagerating..

Whaaaa????

that is crazy but not so suprising when I think of it. We had a kid in HS that could barely read when asked to read to the class. First I thought he was like me and it was more of a stage reading fright but turns out he just never truly learned how to read well.

[FlamingGlory]

Also, that law that makes it so you can't fire a teacher once they've worked for a certain amount of years needs to go. There is one teacher that still teaches at my old high school who obviously had some sort of mental breakdown many years ago, and should NOT be teaching children. The guy is messed up.

That is because of the teacher's union. You should read the Wal Mart to find out how great unions are. :rolleyes:

[SemperFly]

What are your thoughts on the public education system? The drain.

Standardized testing? Good system of measuring but far too much stock is placed into it. What works in Georgia won't necessarily work in Oregon.


Public vouchers ? God yes. Competition breeds innovation. Parents should have the right to choose where their child goes.


Private schools? Private religious schools? Absolutely. They produce far better results. As for the religious schools, parents have the right to have their children educated as they see fit. If they want their kids to learn that the world is 6000 years old, so be it. It's their damned right.

The (FL) class size amendment?
Don't know anything about it. :o

Teacher salaries? and why, when 99% of the people I meet say "teachers should be paid more", they don't?? Because many of them don't even deserve the money they get. Many teachers are horrible and the fucking teacher's union keeps even pedophiles from getting fired in a timely manner.

Spanking in schools (which we cant do here in FL)? Absolutely not. I'm not against spanking but no one has the right to put their hands on a child but a parent.

NCLB: No Child Left Behind?Too little too late, counterprodictive. Grading the schools gives parents a good idea of school districts but doesn't help them move their kids to better schools without uprooting the family.

Also, lowering standards only helps the little retards and delinquents because too many people in this country are such pussies that self esteem is more important than education. :rolleyes:

[sabrina]

NCLB is w's federal law that requires 3rd graders to be reading on grade level before they can move on to 4th.. there may be other grades affected as well, but 3rd's the only one off top i remem.. or have exposure to firsthand..

here at my elem school.. bec of this law.. we have 3 fifth grade classes, 4 4th, .... and 7 3rd grade classes!!! .. the ol' logjam.. soon we'll have fifth graders with goatees driving to school.. i'm only marginally exagerating..

Why are so many kids in 3rd grade below their reading level? It seems like the standards to pass that are so low anyway, it's kind of ridiculous that there would be anyone left a grade back.

I know that after living here for two years I was at a higher level of English than most of my classmates who have lived here all their lives. Sounds like they need to change something, and I don't think leaving kids a grade behind is the right solution.

[SemperFly]

In my opinion one of the worst things to happen to the American public school system is allowing vending machines on school grounds. Kids CANNOT learn when they're not properly fed.

Watch Jamie Oliver's four part series http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/J/jamies_school_dinners/ If it's that bad in England I can only imagine how horrible it is here.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA - Stossel's "Stupid In America"
Schools needing more money is one of the biggest lies in the country.

[sabrina]

In my opinion one of the worst things to happen to the American public school system is allowing vending machines on school grounds. Kids CANNOT learn when they're not properly fed.

Watch Jamie Oliver's four part series http://www.channel4.com/life/microsites/J/jamies_school_dinners/ If it's that bad in England I can only imagine how horrible it is here.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA - Stossel's "Stupid In America"
Schools needing more money is one of the biggest lies in the country.

I couldn't agree more. I remember what I ate for lunch in high school. Nasty fries or cold, greasy pizza and soda. HORRIBLE. When I have kids, I'm going to pack their lunch every day. No one should go through school on nothing but sugar and fat. ugh.

[FlamingGlory]

Why are so many kids in 3rd grade below their reading level? It seems like the standards to pass that are so low anyway, it's kind of ridiculous that there would be anyone left a grade back.

I know that after living here for two years I was at a higher level of English than most of my classmates who have lived here all their lives. Sounds like they need to change something, and I don't think leaving kids a grade behind is the right solution.

It's called public school for a reason eh? Caters to the stupidest kid there combined with an incredibly powerful teacher's union that has little or no incentive to work.

I went to Catholic school and then was home schooled most of k-12. I only ever went to public school for maybe 3 months total, 90% of the time was just spent getting in lines.

[sabrina]

It's called public school for a reason eh? Caters to the stupidest kid there combined with an incredibly powerful teacher's union that has little or no incentive to work.

I went to Catholic school and then was home schooled most of k-12. I only ever went to public school for maybe 3 months total, 90% of the time was just spent getting in lines.

The funny thing is, when I went to a public high school, my GPA dropped as low as 1.6. I am not a stupid kid, I just disagreed with just about everything about how my school was run. Then, my senior year I enrolled in a program that allows you to finish high school in college and still get a diploma from your high school, and my GPA went up to a 4.0 even though the classes weren't any easier.

High school only caters to a certain type of person, and it really wasn't me. I needed to be able to make my own schedule, choose my own classes, have more freedom.

[SemperFly]

Why are so many kids in 3rd grade below their reading level? It seems like the standards to pass that are so low anyway, it's kind of ridiculous that there would be anyone left a grade back.

I know that after living here for two years I was at a higher level of English than most of my classmates who have lived here all their lives. Sounds like they need to change something, and I don't think leaving kids a grade behind is the right solution.

Two reasons. The first is what I mentioned about the horrible nutrition. Kids can't retain information if all they eat is chicken nuggets and fries. The main reason, however, is that parents here don't care enough. They want to drop their kids off in the morning, go to work, and pick up a genius at the end of the day. Everything up to middle school can be taught by parents but instead younger pre-K and pre-pre-K classes are being started so parents can shove their toddlers off on some government employee.

Parents don't care. That is the biggest problem.

[SemperFly]

I couldn't agree more. I remember what I ate for lunch in high school. Nasty fries or cold, greasy pizza and soda. HORRIBLE. When I have kids, I'm going to pack their lunch every day. No one should go through school on nothing but sugar and fat. ugh.

I've mentioned this before in other threads but I remember being in class with so many kids that had ADD/ADHD and were taking Ritalin or Adderal or some other drug to calm them down. What'd they have for lunch? Snickers bar, Coke and a bag of chips.

:tard: school lunches were bad enough but the fucking vending machines are damn near child abuse

[ChikkenNoodul]

Kids also only learn what the government _wants_ them to. :tinfoil:

[F33nX1080i]

The main reason, however, is that parents here don't care enough. They want to drop their kids off in the morning, go to work, and pick up a genius at the end of the day. Everything up to middle school can be taught by parents but instead younger pre-K and pre-pre-K classes are being started so parents can shove their toddlers off on some government employee.

Parents don't care. That is the biggest problem.


that's totally correct. and the parents that do care come so few and far between that they either can't fight the system and can't afford private school or break their backs and send their kids to private school to offer them a better chance and a decent environment for learning.

[sabrina]

I've mentioned this before in other threads but I remember being in class with so many kids that had ADD/ADHD and were taking Ritalin or Adderal or some other drug to calm them down. What'd they have for lunch? Snickers bar, Coke and a bag of chips.

:tard: school lunches were bad enough but the fucking vending machines are damn near child abuse

It's funny, I went to a supposedly "good" high school in a really rich neighborhood, yet our cafeteria was one of the worst I've ever seen. The food was disgusting, and often they'd sell us day old (probably more like week-old) stuff! Some friends of mine formed a club and we wanted to do a day once a week where we'd give out salads and sandwiches, but the school didn't allow us to do it because of "health concerns"

edit: I don't remember if we had vending machines for anything other than soda, but the cafeteria sold nothing but candy bars, soda, donuts, pizza, and fries.

[FlamingGlory]

The funny thing is, when I went to a public high school, my GPA dropped as low as 1.6. I am not a stupid kid, I just disagreed with just about everything about how my school was run. Then, my senior year I enrolled in a program that allows you to finish high school in college and still get a diploma from your high school, and my GPA went up to a 4.0 even though the classes weren't any easier.

High school only caters to a certain type of person, and it really wasn't me. I needed to be able to make my own schedule, choose my own classes, have more freedom.
Make your own schedule might be asking a lot from a bunch of idiot teenagers...

I've done schoolwork for people in HS, if you at least turn in something you are going to pass the class. The only way to fail is not show up. Compared to Catholic school where you got demerits (no lunching with other students, no breaks, detention) for missing assignments.

Dunno, I still am petrified of missing a class for any reason. Where are you from anyway?

[sabrina]

Make your own schedule might be asking a lot from a bunch of idiot teenagers...

I've done schoolwork for people in HS, if you at least turn in something you are going to pass the class. The only way to fail is not show up. Compared to Catholic school where you got demerits (no lunching with other students, no breaks, detention) for missing assignments.

Dunno, I still am petrified of missing a class for any reason. Where are you from anyway?

I missed so many classes in high school... then, in community college I'd only miss the ones that I didn't have to go to. Now in University I haven't missed a class in 3 semesters.

I'm originally from Russia, but most of my education happened in Israel, where I lived from age 6 to 11.

[BeerAd]

Parents fault, man it gets so old hearing that.

Coming from someone who used to say it a lot it is such an easy cop out.

[BeerAd]

Make your own schedule might be asking a lot from a bunch of idiot teenagers...

I've done schoolwork for people in HS, if you at least turn in something you are going to pass the class. The only way to fail is not show up. Compared to Catholic school where you got demerits (no lunching with other students, no breaks, detention) for missing assignments.

Dunno, I still am petrified of missing a class for any reason. Where are you from anyway?

EVERY catholic school kid I have met has been a druggy or a complete whore.

[F33nX1080i]

Parents fault, man it gets so old hearing that.

Coming from someone who used to say it a lot it is such an easy cop out.

it's not a cop out when you're 6 or 7 and have no control over your education

[SemperFly]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA - Stossel's "Stupid In America"
Schools needing more money is one of the biggest lies in the country.

this needs to be quoted

[ChikkenNoodul]

The funny thing is, when I went to a public high school, my GPA dropped as low as 1.6. I am not a stupid kid, I just disagreed with just about everything about how my school was run. Then, my senior year I enrolled in a program that allows you to finish high school in college and still get a diploma from your high school, and my GPA went up to a 4.0 even though the classes weren't any easier.

High school only caters to a certain type of person, and it really wasn't me. I needed to be able to make my own schedule, choose my own classes, have more freedom.
I flunked out of HS :D Got a GED instead

I would've loved to have gone to an alternative high school or something, I think I could have done much better. Although, looking at undergrad degree requirments from most colleges I see the same problems I had with HS: far too much useless content for the real world.

That, combined with my love for my precious little free time (Not to mention that it wouldn't help with my current career, and I'd need to go for a doctorate to do anything else I'm interested in) has kept me from bothering to go back to school.

[ChikkenNoodul]

EVERY catholic school kid I have met has been a druggy or a complete whore.

Moving to MA I hear that from a lot of people around here, where I grew up in CT the kids who went to Catholic school actually had quite good experiences.

[BeerAd]

it's not a cop out when you're 6 or 7 and have no control over your education

So it is the parents fault that public schools suck?

Or maybe there fault for not being able to afford a private school.

[BeerAd]

Moving to MA I hear that from a lot of people around here, where I grew up in CT the kids who went to Catholic school actually had quite good experiences.

Yeah, I am sure it is different in every area. In my experiences so far I have only met really screwed up people from private schools. Although I did not learn anything I am glad my parents sent me to public school. If I had gone to any of the private schools around here I would be fawked. Funny thing is one of my old friends moms was a teacher at our school. She didnt want Eric going to HS at Tarpon cause she knows the other teachers are horrible. He attended a private/church school and is now battling between shooting up pain killers or heroin, which he learned there.

[F33nX1080i]

So it is the parents fault that public schools suck?

it's the parents' fault for not being more active and concerned about their children's education, and for not taking measures to give their children the chance for the best education they can get.

[FlamingGlory]

I missed so many classes in high school... then, in community college I'd only miss the ones that I didn't have to go to. Now in University I haven't missed a class in 3 semesters.

I'm originally from Russia, but most of my education happened in Israel, where I lived from age 6 to 11.
I thought you were from eastern europe for some reason. lol

Hm. When I started getting homeschooled, I just didnt do anything for about 6 months. There was no one to force me. Then I sorta just started working on my own and found out a lot of this crap I previously had no interest in, was actually interesting. It was like a small epiphany that I actually liked learning things. It seems some people, a lot of people, are never going to have the self discipline to actually apply themselves to learning things that cant be hand fed from a teacher, which is a talent needed for just about any abstract topic...

Dont pretend to have answers, the only thing that ever seemed to make some sense on a grand scale was the grammar school system. Which would take too long to explain so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar_schools_in_the_United_Kingdom

[SemperFly]

So it is the parents fault that public schools suck?

Or maybe there fault for not being able to afford a private school.

It's the fault of the parents for thinking that they have no role in educating their child. It's the fault of every parent that doesn't teach their child to read instead of expecting a government employee to do it for them.

[ChikkenNoodul]

It's the fault of the parents for thinking that they have no role in educating their child. It's the fault of every parent that doesn't teach their child to read instead of expecting a government employee to do it for them.

But if parents do too good of a job teaching their kids to read, then the kids end up far ahead of the curve and extremely bored. :fly:

Nothing like a bunch of bored smart kids for some real mischief :pandora:

[Thorn Bird]

EVERY catholic school kid I have met has been a druggy or a complete whore.

ooo!! ooo!!! *raises hand* i'm not! i'm not!

[lemon_fresh]

What are your thoughts on the public education system?
Truth be told I don't think things are that bad, especially once you get into our Highschools. If you, as the child are motivated, by your parents or circumstances you will learn.
I know many a doctor or successful business owner who send their children to public schools here in Tampa. I also know of public school teacher who choose to send their children to private schools. In a nutshell, I've known people who have graduated from public & private schools who have gone on to do great things. Conversely, I've known many more people who have graduated from both private and public schools who have done NOTHING with their lives.

Standardized testing?
Outright BS.

Public vouchers ?
Bad idea. Supply & demand will kick in and the schools will raise their prices accordingly, so only the rich or extremely motivated, will be sending their kids to private schools. Also, once the money starts flowing, will we see a proliferation of new private schools, as we did w/ the charter schools a few years back? Who will guarantee the quality of these new private schools? Lots of questions and ways to cheat w/ vouchers.

Private schools? Private religious schools?
I had the luxury of attending both private elementary/middle school and graduating from a public highschool. I feel that I benefitted from my private schooling in the lower grades, but I felt that the private HS I attended was not offering me much. I honestly felt that I had way more opportunities for learning/expanding my horizons in the public HS.

The (FL) class size amendment?
Bad idea w/ out a funding amendment.

Teacher salaries? and why, when 99% of the people I meet say "teachers should be paid more", they don't??
Everybody wants to be paid more. My thinking on the pay issue is this, there should be more of a performance based bonus system in the schools just like at your normal everday jobs. You get a good review you get a good raise, you get a shitty review you get a shitty or non-existent raise. Raises based solely on seniority are BAD. They keep the bad teachers around far too long.

Spanking in schools (which we cant do here in FL)?
I don't want anybody but ME touching my kid. Plus I don't do too much spanking anyway. So no go on this one.

NCLB: No Child Left Behind?
Again, like the class size amendment, how do we pay for the kids we can't leave behind? Shortsighted, do nothing BS that plays well to the heartland.

[FlamingGlory]

EVERY catholic school kid I have met has been a druggy or a complete whore.

Moving to MA I hear that from a lot of people around here, where I grew up in CT the kids who went to Catholic school actually had quite good experiences.

Yeah, I am sure it is different in every area. In my experiences so far I have only met really screwed up people from private schools. Although I did not learn anything I am glad my parents sent me to public school. If I had gone to any of the private schools around here I would be fawked. Funny thing is one of my old friends moms was a teacher at our school. She didnt want Eric going to HS at Tarpon cause she knows the other teachers are horrible. He attended a private/church school and is now battling between shooting up pain killers or heroin, which he learned there.

I know plenty of normal people who went to Catholic School. The ones who couldnt cope wouldnt have been able to cope no matter where they went. The only difference is they didnt get coddled there. Hand-holding really varies from school to school depending on what kind of parish it's in. The ones I went to were run by the Order of Friars Minor who were pretty good all around people.

The focus was more on teaching you to learn things yourself than actually being taught subjects. The assignments were literally "learn this, write a paper about it".

[sabrina]

It's the fault of the parents for thinking that they have no role in educating their child. It's the fault of every parent that doesn't teach their child to read instead of expecting a government employee to do it for them.

There are so many people that come from another country who simply don't know how the school system works here. I know my parents didn't. I hid my report cards from them, and half the time they had no idea how badly I was doing. Also, when we moved here, unlike people who've had a chance to save all their lives, we came here with nothing, and both of my parents had to work long days. They had no choice but to leave my education to the public school system, and I know the same is true of many other parents.

It's great if you can afford to put a lot of time into your children's education, attend PTA meetings, keep an eye on what's going on at their school, etc, but many people can't, and the public school system could be much, much better than it is.

Sure, it's partially the parents' fault, but I think it'll take a lot more than just pointing fingers and naming a certain source for the problems to fix everything that's wrong in the public school system. It's a combination of factors.

BTW I'm watching the documentary you linked to.

[Shalimar]

apathetic parents.. check
85% free and reduced lunch.. check
disinterested teachers.. check
(occasionally hungover teachers.. check)
lack of funding.. check
kids from the hood.. check
generational poverty.. check
overpaid admins.. check
behavior problems that keep others from learning.. check
too many kids in a class.. check
mismanaged resources.. check

long list.. I'll post better and more later..


whoever said "drop em off and pick up a genius" was correct.. LOT of that..

"and make sure you give em that free breakfast and lunch while he's there.. excuse me, what did you say? Yes, we have a new truck on 20's and yes, he's got brand new jordans on, but he still qualifies for free lunch"..

thefukkouttahere..

[SemperFly]

ooo!! ooo!!! *raises hand* i'm not! i'm not!

you're a rare breed because I knew a catholic school girl that before high school had been homeschooled

personality of a damp washcloth but she was a freak in the sack

[FlamingGlory]

It's the fault of the parents for thinking that they have no role in educating their child. It's the fault of every parent that doesn't teach their child to read instead of expecting a government employee to do it for them.

If the parents dont care then the kid is either going to have to A) Develop a want to learn or B) We always need poor people to be better than. Saying it's the parent's fault doesnt help anyone, it's just the natural order of things.

It is the parent's fault, but it is also the fault of the children for being born to those parents. What it isnt: is my problem. There will always be stupid people.

[FlamingGlory]

you're a rare breed because I knew a catholic school girl that before high school had been homeschooled

personality of a damp washcloth but she was a freak in the sack

>.<

[ChikkenNoodul]

"and make sure you give em that free breakfast and lunch while he's there.. excuse me, what did you say? Yes, we have a new truck on 20's and yes, he's got brand new jordans on, but he still qualifies for free lunch"..


Not surprising, I've seen numerous people with similarly extravagant items paying with food stamps at grocery stores.

[SemperFly]

Bad idea. Supply & demand will kick in and the schools will raise their prices accordingly, so only the rich or extremely motivated, will be sending their kids to private schools. Also, once the money starts flowing, will we see a proliferation of new private schools, as we did w/ the charter schools a few years back? Who will guarantee the quality of these new private schools? Lots of questions and ways to cheat w/ vouchers. :confused: sorry dude but I don't think you're getting the point of vouchers. they're not for people to send their kids to private schools, it's a way to allow parents to choose the best public school for their child. under the current system parents send their children to the school the country decides based on their address. the school gets money based on the number of students it gets and the local taxes. generally each child in the US is worth about eight grand a year in public education costs. in a voucher system that eight grand is attached to the child, not the school. thus if you're a parent and you feel clearwater high school will give your child a better education than pinellas park high school (and it most certainly will) then you send your child there and the money goes with your child. this encourages pinellas park to cut costs and become a better school in order to encourage parents to send their kids there

[SemperFly]

There are so many people that come from another country who simply don't know how the school system works here. I know my parents didn't. I hid my report cards from them, and half the time they had no idea how badly I was doing. Also, when we moved here, unlike people who've had a chance to save all their lives, we came here with nothing, and both of my parents had to work long days. They had no choice but to leave my education to the public school system, and I know the same is true of many other parents.

It's great if you can afford to put a lot of time into your children's education, attend PTA meetings, keep an eye on what's going on at their school, etc, but many people can't, and the public school system could be much, much better than it is.

Sure, it's partially the parents' fault, but I think it'll take a lot more than just pointing fingers and naming a certain source for the problems to fix everything that's wrong in the public school system. It's a combination of factors.

BTW I'm watching the documentary you linked to.
I understand that many parents find it hard to be involved. I'm not blaming the parents that can't take a more active role in their kids education because they're trying to keep a roof over their family but I do feel that those parents who do have the free time but feel they should be picking up a well-behaved genius at the end of the day with no effort on their part are a big part of the problem.

You're right, there's a LOT of problems. :(

[FlamingGlory]

There are different voucher systems o.O A lot of them work how lemonfresh thinks they do.

[SemperFly]

apathetic parents.. check
85% free and reduced lunch.. check
disinterested teachers.. check
(occasionally hungover teachers.. check)
lack of funding.. check
kids from the hood.. check
generational poverty.. check
overpaid admins.. check
behavior problems that keep others from learning.. check
too many kids in a class.. check
mismanaged resources.. check

long list.. I'll post better and more later..


whoever said "drop em off and pick up a genius" was correct.. LOT of that..

"and make sure you give em that free breakfast and lunch while he's there.. excuse me, what did you say? Yes, we have a new truck on 20's and yes, he's got brand new jordans on, but he still qualifies for free lunch"..

thefukkouttahere..Out of all the kids I knew getting free/reduced lunch only one of them was genuinely impoverished and deserved it. The rest would come to school in new Nikes and those ginormous starter jackets. Often there was no need to prove income when applying for that stuff. I always thought kids on free/reduced lunch should all be wearing the same government supplied brown jumpsuits :fly: Or at least made to stand in a different line. A little humility can go a long way.

[SemperFly]

There are different voucher systems o.O A lot of them work how lemonfresh thinks they do.

mea culpa, then

[Shalimar]

:confused: sorry dude but I don't think you're getting the point of vouchers. they're not for people to send their kids to private schools, it's a way to allow parents to choose the best public school for their child. under the current system parents send their children to the school the country decides based on their address. the school gets money based on the number of students it gets and the local taxes. generally each child in the US is worth about eight grand a year in public education costs. in a voucher system that eight grand is attached to the child, not the school. thus if you're a parent and you feel clearwater high school will give your child a better education than pinellas park high school (and it most certainly will) then you send your child there and the money goes with your child. this encourages pinellas park to cut costs and become a better school in order to encourage parents to send their kids there

not so sure player.. the school system WILL give money, usually 'only' a few grand, to be used toward tuition at a private school..

a private school that a. can get rid of behavior problems and/or low performing students and b. that isn't held accountable by the FCAT (our state stand. test).. (sorry, a bit random i know, but it just gets my goat that people talk about "how great" private schools are.. well, they're not forced to play the cards they're dealt.. they can reshuffle or exchange the mofukkas out, if you know what i'm sayin)

[FlamingGlory]

not so sure player.. the school system WILL give money, usually 'only' a few grand, to be used toward tuition at a private school..

a private school that a. can get rid of behavior problems and/or low performing students and b. that isn't held accountable by the FCAT (our state stand. test).. (sorry, a bit random i know, but it just gets my goat that people talk about "how great" private schools are.. well, they're not forced to play the cards they're dealt.. they can reshuffle or exchange the mofukkas out, if you know what i'm sayin)

You all do realise states are different? Each school district is different. Only people in florida take the FCAT :rolleyes:

Some work FlyNavy's way, and the majority work the way lemonfresh thought. Most places you have to pay through the nose to attend private schools, and homeschooling costs just as much because you have to buy ALL the teaching materials.

Also, they wouldnt be private school's if they couldnt drop idiots. That's half the reason to go to private school. They can cut people who are slowing down the class, or hold them back.

[BeerAd]

It is funny how you can blame blame blame the parents for not getting "more involved" and "TEACHING" there kids to read. THEY SHOULDNT HAVE TO!

just because my parents didnt write a check to the public school I went to sure as hell doenst mean that they didnt pay them. Everyone in this country pays these teachers to teach, dont put the blame on the parents. Teachers should get students involved, TEACHER'S should make sure kids are in school, Teachers should make sure they are learning, that is what they are paid(poorly) for.

[FlamingGlory]

It is funny how you can blame blame blame the parents for not getting "more involved" and "TEACHING" there kids to read. THEY SHOULDNT HAVE TO!

just because my parents didnt write a check to the public school I went to sure as hell doenst mean that they didnt pay them. Everyone in this country pays these teachers to teach, dont put the blame on the parents. Teachers should get students involved, TEACHER'S should make sure kids are in school, Teachers should make sure they are learning, that is what they are paid(poorly) for.

Ever occur to you that some kids are just stupid?

[BeerAd]

Ever occur to you that some kids are just stupid?

According to you ALL public school kids are stupid :fly:

[wanko80]

High school only caters to a certain type of person
..the lowest common denominator.

[lemon_fresh]

:confused: sorry dude but I don't think you're getting the point of vouchers. they're not for people to send their kids to private schools, it's a way to allow parents to choose the best public school for their child. under the current system parents send their children to the school the country decides based on their address. the school gets money based on the number of students it gets and the local taxes. generally each child in the US is worth about eight grand a year in public education costs. in a voucher system that eight grand is attached to the child, not the school. thus if you're a parent and you feel clearwater high school will give your child a better education than pinellas park high school (and it most certainly will) then you send your child there and the money goes with your child. this encourages pinellas park to cut costs and become a better school in order to encourage parents to send their kids there

Ok, you would be correct if that were the type of program they were presenting here in Florida a few years back. It was a straight out voucher to pay for private schools, not a variation of school choice as you've described. Correct me if I'm wrong but my quick googling leads me to believe that it's a straight "check for private school" kinda thing.
From CNN: "If students score so low that the school they attend is rated "F" twice in four years, then the parents of those students can use taxpayer money -- up to about $3,400 a year -- to send their children to private schools."
Now, on that note, what you describe is a very intriguing program, but it certainly is not what we here in Florida would describe as a "voucher program."

[sabrina]

the school district i go to is in that documentary FlyNavy posted. The part where they talk about inspectors who go in to make sure a student really lives where they say they live, that's happened to many of my friends in high school. Especially the ones whose parents are divorced and live separately.

It's pretty crazy what people will do to get into a certain school.

I think certain apartment complexes actually pay money to be in a certain district, because I know I was 5 minutes away from a crappy high school, yet I attended a good high school that was 30 minutes away.

[lemon_fresh]

It is funny how you can blame blame blame the parents for not getting "more involved" and "TEACHING" there kids to read. THEY SHOULDNT HAVE TO!

Hey dude who taught you how to hold a book? I'm betting it was your mom or dad, am I right? You should have already learned a whole bunch from your parents and family before you even hit a classroom.
If you hit kindergarten and you don't know what letters are or how to hold a book in the correct manner or even be able to identify colors, your parents have failed to do their jobs.

[sabrina]

Hey dude who taught you how to hold a book? I'm betting it was your mom or dad, am I right? You should have already learned a whole bunch from your parents and family before you even hit a classroom.
If you hit kindergarten and you don't know what letters are or how to hold a book in the correct manner or even be able to identify colors, your parents have failed to do their jobs.

My parents actually taught me how to read when I was 4 years old, long before I started going to school. When I went to first grade, it was in a different country and I was learning my second language along with the kids who were just starting to read in school. Then, in 6th grade, I quickly caught up to everyone studying English, even though it was my third language.

I'm endlessly grateful that my parents taught me how to read so early on and I never struggled with it. Kids have an ability to read by age 4, and they should!

I think it's a shame if parents wait for schools to teach their kids how to read and write and never take an active role in doing it themselves before the kids ever go to school.

[SemperFly]

It is funny how you can blame blame blame the parents for not getting "more involved" and "TEACHING" there kids to read. THEY SHOULDNT HAVE TO! Uh, yes they should. Parents should most certainly take an active role in the education of their children. If they don't then they have no place to bitch about it.

just because my parents didnt write a check to the public school I went to sure as hell doenst mean that they didnt pay them. Everyone in this country pays these teachers to teach, dont put the blame on the parents. Teachers should get students involved, TEACHER'S should make sure kids are in school, Teachers should make sure they are learning, that is what they are paid(poorly) for.

Yes the teachers need part of the blame. Many of them are getting paid poorly because they don't deserve to get paid jack shit let alone have a higher salary. Maybe a little personal responsibility on everyone's part, from the teachers to the parents to the administrators, would help things out.

[SemperFly]

Ever occur to you that some kids are just stupid?

that too. like I said before, this country is so pussified and filled with liberal tree hugging hippies that people see self confidence as more important than education. kids need to learn that they are not equal. some kids are smarter, some kids are better athletes, some kids are prettier. those are the realities of life and trying to shelter them from that does more harm than good

[FlamingGlory]

According to you ALL public school kids are stupid :fly:
It's more of a surprise to find a smart public school student than it is to find a stupid one. It isnt really surprising though, contrary to what they teach you in public school, everyone is not special and everyone cannot be above average.

There are stupid people in private school as well. The only difference is the teachers told them they were stupid. We had ranked classes for each subject. Never had to be taught alongside morons.

[sabrina]

that too. like I said before, this country is so pussified and filled with liberal tree hugging hippies that people see self confidence as more important than education. kids need to learn that they are not equal. some kids are smarter, some kids are better athletes, some kids are prettier. those are the realities of life and trying to shelter them from that does more harm than good

I remember some school district passed a rule a while back saying that teachers can't tell kids their answer is wrong - because it would hurt their self esteem.

So a kid could say that 4+1 = 7 and the teacher couldn't tell them it's wrong. WTF.

[SemperFly]

Ok, you would be correct if that were the type of program they were presenting here in Florida a few years back. It was a straight out voucher to pay for private schools, not a variation of school choice as you've described. Correct me if I'm wrong but my quick googling leads me to believe that it's a straight "check for private school" kinda thing.
From CNN: "If students score so low that the school they attend is rated "F" twice in four years, then the parents of those students can use taxpayer money -- up to about $3,400 a year -- to send their children to private schools."
Now, on that note, what you describe is a very intriguing program, but it certainly is not what we here in Florida would describe as a "voucher program."

Yeah, that's a pretty ridiculous system right there. I think the point is that parents sending their children to private school should not have to pay the taxes used for public schools but then again I don't believe people without children should have to pay either. My education was already paid for by my parents. There is no reason I should be paying for someone else's unless I choose to (though it is a system I would voluntarily pay into, I just believe it should be a choice).

Either way the entire Department of Education needs to be abolished and the business of education needs to be returned to the States.

[BeerAd]

Hey dude who taught you how to hold a book? I'm betting it was your mom or dad, am I right? You should have already learned a whole bunch from your parents and family before you even hit a classroom.
If you hit kindergarten and you don't know what letters are or how to hold a book in the correct manner or even be able to identify colors, your parents have failed to do their jobs.

No, I would have learned that stuff in Pre-School.


You are taking the basics of raising a child and putting it into what I am talking about. You might as well put in there that they teach you to poop too.

[SemperFly]

I remember some school district passed a rule a while back saying that teachers can't tell kids their answer is wrong - because it would hurt their self esteem.

So a kid could say that 4+1 = 7 and the teacher couldn't tell them it's wrong. WTF.

jesus :lol: I'd like to think I'll raise a child that will have the smarts and cojones to stand up and call that child a fraking moron in front of the rest of the class :P

[SemperFly]

No, I would have learned that stuff in Pre-School.


You are taking the basics of raising a child and putting it into what I am talking about. You might as well put in there that they teach you to poop too.

Preschool is another problem. As is pre-pre-K and all the other stupid little systems they create to alleviate the poor parents of the responsibility of actually having to raise their children. :rolleyes:

[BeerAd]

It's more of a surprise to find a smart public school student than it is to find a stupid one. It isnt really surprising though, contrary to what they teach you in public school, everyone is not special and everyone cannot be above average.

There are stupid people in private school as well. The only difference is the teachers told them they were stupid. We had ranked classes for each subject. Never had to be taught alongside morons.

This must be why you are such a good "people person"

[SemperFly]

This must be why you are such a good "people person"

Having the common sense to realize that some people are smarter than others and that people are NOT created equally is far more important than being a good "people person".

[FlamingGlory]

No, I would have learned that stuff in Pre-School.


You are taking the basics of raising a child and putting it into what I am talking about. You might as well put in there that they teach you to poop too.

Dude, my parents taught me to read as well. Preschool is a waste of money and time.

[BeerAd]

Preschool is another problem. As is pre-pre-K and all the other stupid little systems they create to alleviate the poor parents of the responsibility of actually having to raise their children. :rolleyes:

Although I agreed somewhat with your last reply this is so horrible. So my parents are "poor parents" because I went to Pre-School?

[lemon_fresh]

that too. like I said before, this country is so pussified and filled with liberal tree hugging hippies that people see self confidence as more important than education. kids need to learn that they are not equal. some kids are smarter, some kids are better athletes, some kids are prettier. those are the realities of life and trying to shelter them from that does more harm than good

Agreed. We should be looking at getting more kids into technical/vocational studies as soon as middle school. Here in Florida, you can be an AC tech and make a fine living for the rest of your life.
Along this same line, I think one of the dumbest things we did here in Florida was to tie your drivers license to you staying in HS. If you feel you are done w/ school at 16 and your parents can't motivate you to attend anymore, then fuck it, good riddance to you.

[Shalimar]

I remember some school district passed a rule a while back saying that teachers can't tell kids their answer is wrong - because it would hurt their self esteem.

So a kid could say that 4+1 = 7 and the teacher couldn't tell them it's wrong. WTF.


"That's certainly one way of looking at it."

[lemon_fresh]

No, I would have learned that stuff in Pre-School.


You are taking the basics of raising a child and putting it into what I am talking about. You might as well put in there that they teach you to poop too.

I am taking the basics of child rearing and putting it into what you are talking about. Your parenst did a whole hell of a lot of teaching/socializing you before you hit any classroom. Or were you some wooly haired, crazy eyed child who ate their own feeces before pre-school? What were you doing until the age of 4 shitting all over your self, since you parents couldn't be bothered to teach you to poop like a civilized person? - I'm kidding by the way, but I hope you see my point.

[FlamingGlory]

This must be why you are such a good "people person"

Having the common sense to realize that some people are smarter than others and that people are NOT created equally is far more important than being a good "people person".

^, and this reminds me of something else:

Stupid kids are still mean kids. Lumping them all together makes learning things harder than it has to be. It's all well and good in 1st grade before these things develop into jealousy but I know for a fact it is easier to function in an enviroment where people have the same basic education.

[FlamingGlory]

Although I agreed somewhat with your last reply this is so horrible. So my parents are "poor parents" because I went to Pre-School?

You have it backward.

[Dysfunctional]

I taught, for a couple years, at a private Catholic school.

Interesting mix of students: the very, very brightest and the very, very most drugged out.

At least the low end would sleep it off in class and not disrupt the others.

I believe politics has messed up the public system.

Everything is organized around the lowest common denominator.

[BeerAd]

Having the common sense to realize that some people are smarter than others and that people are NOT created equally is far more important than being a good "people person".

Being a good "people person" means that you have the common sense to realize peoples differences. What you fail to realize is that by working with these people you realize how they function. Realizing how others function gets you very far in the business world.

[FlamingGlory]

Being a good "people person" means that you have the common sense to realize peoples differences. What you fail to realize is that by working with these people you realize how they function. Realizing how others function gets you very far in the business world.
ZOMG personal attack. You are slandering my character based on your already prejudiced view of Catholic Schools.

I know damn well how most people function. Most can barely hold an abstract concept and keep breathing at the same time. You apparently think I cant behave properly in any social setting, which goes against all empirical evidence to the contrary. If you have some point let's spit it out, this does get dull.

[BeerAd]

One side I dont like about FG's schooling is that you never truly see how others relate to the world. Constantly looking down at others is why we are currently in this problem to begin with. If I did learn in that situation is that when I am the smartest person in the class I can help others out. When I am not the smartest I will receive help from people who understand the subject better. If everyone is at the same level there is no peer helping going on. I dont like that.

[BeerAd]

ZOMG personal attack. You are slandering my character based on your already prejudiced view of Catholic Schools.

I know damn well how most people function. Most can barely hold an abstract concept and keep breathing at the same time. You apparently think I cant behave properly in any social setting, which goes against all empirical evidence to the contrary. If you have some point let's spit it out, this does get dull.

haha, settle down there silly pants.

[FlamingGlory]

One side I dont like about FG's schooling is that you never truly see how others relate to the world. Constantly looking down at others is why we are currently in this problem to begin with. If I did learn in that situation is that when I am the smartest person in the class I can help others out. When I am not the smartest I will receive help from people who understand the subject better. If everyone is at the same level there is no peer helping going on. I dont like that.
Teamwork makes the dream work!

Did you miss my entire post about being picked on for knowing things? If you think that kids truly play well together... Well I dont know what to do for ya. In my stay, albeit short, in public school what I remember most is that almost no one wanted to learn things, and the ones who did were. Reading books was "retarded"! You cant help those who dont want to help themselves.

Im also not going to be sat here and listen to you tell me that is the school's fault, or the parent's fault. If once you get to HS and all you want to do 'hang out' and go to parties it's pretty much your own decision. You need a strong sense of direction until maybe 5th grade. No amount of outside force is going to make idiots learn.

I have absolutely no problem with teaching people something they dont know but want to learn. This is a very very rare occaision though.

[BeerAd]

Teamwork makes the dream work!

Did you miss my entire post about being picked on for knowing things? If you think that kids truly play well together... Well I dont know what to do for ya. In my stay, albeit short, in public school what I remember most is that almost no one wanted to learn things, and the ones who did were. Reading books was "retarded"! You cant help those who dont want to help themselves.

Im also not going to be sat here and listen to you tell me that is the school's fault, or the parent's fault. If once you get to HS and all you want to do 'hang out' and go to parties it's pretty much your own decision. You need a strong sense of direction until maybe 5th grade. No amount of outside force is going to make idiots learn.

I have absolutely no problem with teaching people something they dont know but want to learn. This is a very very rare occaision though.

Yes, I did miss that post. I agree with most of these points in here and if you want to be in a private school for those reasons that is fine. I actually had to go back to your first/second post because I was giving you attitude for the wrong reasons. I thought you had said that public schools cater to the dumbest people, as in saying that everyone in public school is a dumbass. You were saying they have to cater to the dumbest person in the school after I read it again. I do however feel that the norm for teachers today is horrible. I can only say this because I did have the rare good teacher who taught me an amazing amount of info. If half of my teachers were like that I would be so much better off.

[FlamingGlory]

Holy hell. Someone understands what I'm trying to say.

Exactly.

[Shalimar]

since i don't know how to effectively quote individual sentences, i'll try and do this from memory..

I would agree that bonuses and other incentives might encourage teachers to do better in the classroom.. the only problem is how to gauge that.. standardized tests? how you gonna measure that? I work in the hood.. the students in my classroom, IN GENERAL, don't come to the table as "smart" as kids from wealthier families.. from the suburbs, etc.. they don't have the same life experiences, the same frames of reference (I have kids who HAVE NEVER BEEN OUT OF ST PETERSBURG) .. so my question would be: should I be punished then since historically our students perform lower on those tests? If this was the case, you would see mass exodus of teachers from lower socio-economic schools to schools with more money.. more monied families.. there are some extensive studies out that say something to the effect of: for every $10,000 your parents gross, you know 2000 words.. obviously, you could figure out how that might impact "bonuses for teachers with high performing students"..




some of the craziest drunks/addicts/freaks i knew were from private schools.. dated a chick from Evangel Christian who kept a thermos of vodka in her trunk at all times.. i'm not gonna make a generalization and say that's the case of all of them, but it is one story.. kids of privelege usually don't have to worry about the mundane things like what's for dinner? when's mom gonna be home? doing the laundry for the family .. at 8 years old! uh.. gosh, i can't sleep with the police sirens going on outside my house.. uh, i hope people don't clown me because I've got holes in my shoes.. etc.. so, IMO, their minds and time wander to other things.. drugs.. sex.. drinking.. (i said it earlier about some of the kids having enough money to buy lunch and not doing so, but we DO have a healthy percentage of kids who are just plain dirt poor.. foster kids.. children of incarcerated parents.. children of drug addicts..)


I'm on the fence about the stand. testing.. we do need SOME way to measure the performances of children in miami vs. jacksonville vs. tampa.. teachers DO teach to the tests very often.. as yall have mentioned, when your school funding rests (sometimes damn near entirely so) on your performance on "the test" you better damn well believe we're preparing for it..

i'm NOT a fan of vouchers for the reasons i mentioned above.. most private schools aren't held accountable to "the test" so giving people money to go there without measuring their performance once they get there seems ass backwards to me..

LOTS of dumb kids in school.. got an uncle that told me back in the day, centuries ago.. lol, they just put the dumb people on the front lines of the war of the day to "cull" the society of rejects, :tard: , and just plain dummies.. don't have that now.. and we are so f'ing PC that we have to act like "little johnny is just as capable".. well, fuck, I can look in five of my students' eyes right now and tell you all the lights ain't turned on.. there's some neurons that ain't firin like they 'posed to.. teach em a trade.. mechanics and house framers make good money sometimes..

spanking.. eh??? kids ain't scared of us anymore.. that's why they act up, because they know we can't "do anything".. "call my momma.. i don't care, the phone's disconnected".. FEAR, my friends, is very motivating indeed..

NCLB.. (sounds like 'nickelbag' :fly: ) .. again, i agree we need some common way to test performance of students, and to also hold teachers and schools accountable.. but a zero tolerance, black/white issue of either ARE or AREN'T passing due to a test.. well, that doesn't make much sense.. what if the kid had the flu testing day? what if his mom stabbed his dad and he spent all night in the hospital, sleepless, but they sure enough dropped his a$$ off at school for that free babysittin? what if a girl's grandfather is molesting her, and she just found out she had herpes, given to her by her own grandfather, and they wouldn't have found out about the molestation had she not began to show symptoms of the herp?

yeah, i'd do good on a test with all that hanging over me..


mingle's note: the last 2 stories are true from children in my own classes.




students have been gone now for a while, so i got papers to grade.. and parents to (try to) call.. cot damn bebe's kids.. out.

[Shalimar]

One side I dont like about FG's schooling is that you never truly see how others relate to the world. Constantly looking down at others is why we are currently in this problem to begin with. If I did learn in that situation is that when I am the smartest person in the class I can help others out. When I am not the smartest I will receive help from people who understand the subject better. If everyone is at the same level there is no peer helping going on. I dont like that.



LOL.. LOTS of smart kids don't want to help less smart kids (dumb is so un-PC)..

and WaAAAAAAAY too often the class only operates at the speed of the slowest kid, thereby boring smart ones to tears.. or sleep.. or apathy..

[sabrina]

I'm sorry but there's just no way to justify spanking in school. There are different methods of discipline, and it is very much possible to have well behaved kids without them fearing physical punishment on the parents' or teachers' part. There are other punishment / reward methods that can be used. If I have kids, no one but me will have a right to decide what method I use to discipline my children, and I'd be very pissed off if I heard of a teacher spanking my child. That's fucked up.

[SemperFly]

Although I agreed somewhat with your last reply this is so horrible. So my parents are "poor parents" because I went to Pre-School?

No, reread the sentence and get back to me. :fly:

[lemon_fresh]

I would agree that bonuses and other incentives might encourage teachers to do better in the classroom.. the only problem is how to gauge that.. standardized tests? how you gonna measure that?

I've actually, given the bonus thing some thought. In the real world you have performance reviews. You could do something similar in the schools, but you would be reviewed by three different groups. First review would be by your peers, second by the parents of the students you teach and lastly by your administration.
Three seperate reviews to even out for the "don't kiss the principals ass" or " won't kowtow to the pain in the ass parents." Throw out the lowest score and avg the next two. Scale of 1-5, 5 gets you the best raise bonus, 1 gets nothin' but your step raise. Somethings gotta be better than what we have in place down here now.

[FlamingGlory]

`snip`
You're a teacher?

Just please, please try to post coherent paragraphs. The quote button is the little thing in the bottom right corner of a post. Just do it in multiple posts if you dont want to edit down the quotes.

Ill stay away from the latin but you are bringing up multiple unrelated one off circumstances (ignoratio elenchi) and use them to justify your entire argument. It is a pointless exercise to address these things. They in no way reflect the whole of the persons being addressed by this subject. To address them is to again bring down things to the slowest person being taught. Everyone should not have to pay for the mistakes of a few. There are other agencies designed to take care of these problems. Not the school system.

[sabrina]

I would agree that bonuses and other incentives might encourage teachers to do better in the classroom.. the only problem is how to gauge that.. standardized tests? how you gonna measure that?

My University has a pretty awesome way of rating teachers: every semester students have to fill out a survey about their teachers AND classes, and what they feel they've learned / haven't learned. The way they make it work is that there are some questions where you rate the teacher / class on a scale from 1 to 5, but there are also questions that you have to write out, and explain WHY you think the teacher or class is good or bad. It also doesn't place all the blame on the teacher, because sometimes the teacher is great but the way a class is structured is bad. At my school they carefully look over these surveys and really make changes based on them. Many bad teachers have been fired because of the survey results. Although I don't think that high schools can implement the system in the same way, since I go to a private university, not a public high school, but they CAN make use of a similar system to reward good teachers who are doing their job.

[BeerAd]

No, reread the sentence and get back to me. :fly:

FG already said I F'ed it up, I am slammed at work today so it has been really hard keeping up without misreading. My fault if I pissed in anyones cornflakes cause when I woke up I had a turd in my taquito.

[SemperFly]

FG already said I F'ed it up, I am slammed at work today so it has been really hard keeping up without misreading. My fault if I pissed in anyones cornflakes cause when I woke up I had a turd in my taquito.

:heart:

I don't mean to directly insult anyone's parents or anything. Most everyone here seems to be relatively intelligent. My beef is with parents that can or at least could take the time to teach their children the basics yet choose not to because they feel the responsibility of raising a child falls with the government. That attitude, to me, is utterly sickening.

[Shalimar]

You're a teacher?

Just please, please try to post coherent paragraphs. The quote button is the little thing in the bottom right corner of a post. Just do it in multiple posts if you dont want to edit down the quotes.

Ill stay away from the latin but you are bringing up multiple unrelated one off circumstances (ignoratio elenchi) and use them to justify your entire argument. It is a pointless exercise to address these things. They in no way reflect the whole of the persons being addressed by this subject. To address them is to again bring down things to the slowest person being taught. Everyone should not have to pay for the mistakes of a few. There are other agencies designed to take care of these problems. Not the school system.

look here norwegian flame guy. . (BTW, i thought 'juxtapositonal irony' was funny as hell)..

yes, i'm a teacher.. yes, my grammar isn't always perfect ON A MESSAGE BOARD.. yes, i tend to bounce around when stating MY OPINION.. it isn't a legal brief.. i ain't turnin it in to a professor or a boss.. so sloooooow down man, tap the brakes a little bit.. i tend to post in the form of a conversation, not complete sentences.. sorry if I don't post "the way" you want me to.. you're funny man, you really are..

my opinions on the AMERICAN educational system are based on a k-12 public education experience as a student and 13 as a teacher on the front lines of poverty stricken schools in South St Pete .. just in case you need verification of my credentials..

yer flame-retardant buddy,
Ignoratio

[BeerAd]

:heart:

I don't mean to directly insult anyone's parents or anything. Most everyone here seems to be relatively intelligent. My beef is with parents that can or at least could take the time to teach their children the basics yet choose not to because they feel the responsibility of raising a child falls with the government. That attitude, to me, is utterly sickening.

Pre-School in my case was for earlier interaction with someone who is more or less a professional in the field. Even if I am a stay at home dad I would be putting my children into pre-school. I will teach my children all the values that my father taught me plus beginning reading maybe. I am not qualified to teach my child how to write, as I am not a good writer. Why start teaching them wrong when they can learn it right?

[BeerAd]

look here norwegian flame guy. . (BTW, i thought 'juxtapositonal irony' was funny as hell)..

yes, i'm a teacher.. yes, my grammar isn't always perfect ON A MESSAGE BOARD.. yes, i tend to bounce around when stating MY OPINION.. it isn't a legal brief.. i ain't turnin it in to a professor or a boss.. so sloooooow down man, tap the brakes a little bit.. i tend to post in the form of a conversation, not complete sentences.. sorry if I don't post "the way" you want me to.. you're funny man, you really are..

my opinions on the AMERICAN educational system are based on a k-12 public education experience as a student and 13 as a teacher on the front lines of poverty stricken schools in South St Pete .. just in case you need verification of my credentials..

yer flame-retardant buddy,
Ignoratio

Get used to it!!!

Some people here will point out when you type your instead of you're :fly:

[SemperFly]

Pre-School in my case was for earlier interaction with someone who is more or less a professional in the field. Even if I am a stay at home dad I would be putting my children into pre-school. I will teach my children all the values that my father taught me plus beginning reading maybe. I am not qualified to teach my child how to write, as I am not a good writer. Why start teaching them wrong when they can learn it right?

See that's what I disagree with. How are you not qualified to teach your child to write? You may not be a good writer but you can certainly write up to a fifth grade level, can't you? You can do basic arithmetic, you know the basics of US history, the basics of the natural sciences. I can't imagine anyone here would be unqualified to teach their children everything up to at least a 3rd or 4th grade level.

And a preschool teacher is not a "professional." A preschool 'teacher' is a government employed babysitter. Nothing more.

[Candy]

Instead of spanking, can we do it the Cesar Milan way and snip our hands at the child's neck. Tss Tss

:lol: I tried that with Shawn and it didn't work.

You can't even call the kid 'dirty' in a "whats-up-homey" kinda way.

[BeerAd]

See that's what I disagree with. How are you not qualified to teach your child to write? You may not be a good writer but you can certainly write up to a fifth grade level, can't you? You can do basic arithmetic, you know the basics of US history, the basics of the natural sciences. I can't imagine anyone here would be unqualified to teach their children everything up to at least a 3rd or 4th grade level.

And a preschool teacher is not a "professional." A preschool 'teacher' is a government employed babysitter. Nothing more.

All valid points but you are kinda missing mine, I will explain tomorrow cause if I dont leave work now I will be stuck here all night :fly:

[FlamingGlory]

look here norwegian flame guy. . (BTW, i thought 'juxtapositonal irony' was funny as hell)..

yes, i'm a teacher.. yes, my grammar isn't always perfect ON A MESSAGE BOARD.. yes, i tend to bounce around when stating MY OPINION.. it isn't a legal brief.. i ain't turnin it in to a professor or a boss.. so sloooooow down man, tap the brakes a little bit.. i tend to post in the form of a conversation, not complete sentences.. sorry if I don't post "the way" you want me to.. you're funny man, you really are..

my opinions on the AMERICAN educational system are based on a k-12 public education experience as a student and 13 as a teacher on the front lines of poverty stricken schools in South St Pete .. just in case you need verification of my credentials..

yer flame-retardant buddy,
Ignoratio

I am attempting to be nice, and help you. Normally, I'd just insult you, your mother, and your wee doggy, then ignore you.

I was not pointing out a flaw in what you are saying but rather that no one can argue over opinion. One cant make any reason on fallacy. There is a reason as you put it 'legal briefs' are written the way they are. It is to convince, or illustrate. No one cares how you feel.

Im not even debating what you say because, well as per Voltaire - A man should never pretend to inform a lover of his mistress' faults, no more than one who is at law of the badness of his cause; nor attempt to win over a fanatic by strength of reasoning.

If you want someone to talk reasonably to you, you have to speak in a reasonable way.

[SemperFly]

No one cares how you feel.



wrong. if he wants to offer opinion, let him offer opinion. who the fuck are you to say that his doesn't matter because you don't like the way it's laid out?

[FlamingGlory]

wrong. if he wants to offer opinion, let him offer opinion. who the fuck are you to say that his doesn't matter because you don't like the way it's laid out?

Can you for a sentence without swearing?

I hadnt realised 'feelings' were to be considered. :rolleyes: Emotion of course is a major factor in all debates.

[Sarcasmo]

Kids also only learn what the government _wants_ them to. :tinfoil:


That's why God made the internets.

[kiwi]

Can you for a sentence without swearing?

I hadnt realised 'feelings' were to be considered. :rolleyes: Emotion of course is a major factor in all debates.

This isn't a debate. He simply made a thread asking how people felt about certain subjects then posted his own thoughts and feelings.

[Sarcasmo]

look here norwegian flame guy. . (BTW, i thought 'juxtapositonal irony' was funny as hell)..


I think you're addressing me on both of these points, not FG.

[Sarcasmo]

And a preschool teacher is not a "professional." A preschool 'teacher' is a government employed babysitter. Nothing more.

Tell that to the preschool teachers who daily bust their asses to take care of other peoples' children. And deal with things like CPS coming to take the kids out of their classrooms, angry and potentially dangerous confrontations between estranged parents who have both come to collect their child, kids with emotional disorders, kids with mysteriously undiagnosed physical disorders ("What do you mean my three year old child can't hear? FUCK YOU!!!") There are a million reasons I love teachers, including preschool ones. And not just because my baby momma's one. :fly:

[SemperFly]

Can you for a sentence without swearing?

I hadnt realised 'feelings' were to be considered. :rolleyes: Emotion of course is a major factor in all debates.

Yes, I can form a sentence without swearing but I prefer not to. Fuck.

Yes, feelings are to be considered. This isn't debate class, pookie, it's a discussion forum and if that's what he wants to add to the discussion then so be it and it is no less valuable than what you add.

[SemperFly]

Tell that to the preschool teachers who daily bust their asses to take care of other peoples' children. And deal with things like CPS coming to take the kids out of their classrooms, angry and potentially dangerous confrontations between estranged parents who have both come to collect their child, kids with emotional disorders, kids with mysteriously undiagnosed physical disorders ("What do you mean my three year old child can't hear? FUCK YOU!!!") There are a million reasons I love teachers, including preschool ones. And not just because my baby momma's one. :fly:

I'm not saying they don't work hard, I'm not saying they don't deserve recognition for what they do but it doesn't change the fact that they are employed to watch kids while parents are at work. That's babysitting, not teaching. I just hate the idea of kids being left in the care of others at younger and younger ages while parents run off to the office. Those years are absolutely crucial to a child's development and parents should take every opportunity to spend that time with their kids.

[FlamingGlory]

Yes, I can form a sentence without swearing but I prefer not to. Fuck.

Yes, feelings are to be considered. This isn't debate class, pookie, it's a discussion forum and if that's what he wants to add to the discussion then so be it and it is no less valuable than what you add.

I was merely attempting to help him. You just demonstrated my entire point at my 2:18 EST post.

[*Fuxx Burger*]

I'm sorry but there's just no way to justify spanking in school. There are different methods of discipline, and it is very much possible to have well behaved kids without them fearing physical punishment on the parents' or teachers' part. There are other punishment / reward methods that can be used. If I have kids, no one but me will have a right to decide what method I use to discipline my children, and I'd be very pissed off if I heard of a teacher spanking my child. That's fucked up.

I couldn't agree with you more. I am a HUGE advocate for gentle discipline. :heart:

[Shalimar]

I think you're addressing me on both of these points, not FG.

my bad..

sarcasmo, i thought the jux irony humorous.. :D

[Shalimar]

Yes, I can form a sentence without swearing but I prefer not to. Fuck.

Yes, feelings are to be considered. This isn't debate class, pookie, it's a discussion forum and if that's what he wants to add to the discussion then so be it and it is no less valuable than what you add.



the dranks are setting in..

this mofo said "pookie".. bwaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha.. . get em son!

regulators.. mount up!!!!

fuck.

[*Fuxx Burger*]

I'm going to home school our children- so that they turn out to be retarded little socially akward beings. :rolleyes:

I am just learning of the devistating situation american schools are in. I can't offer much to this conversation as I took all of my public education (1-12) in Canada... But I can say this.

My mother is a teacher at a private school and honestly, she runs into more problems with her students. The only difference between students at a public school and students at a private school is that mommy and daddy are paying more to have them there.

I am a big supporter of public schools. I came from a public school and I would love to see my children go to public school- I just hope that by the time we have kids of school going age the system will be in better shape.

Fatburger went to a private school and I am appauled at the crap that was passed as "literature". IMO he missed out on so many wonderful books and experiences reading- and I certainly don't want my children to miss out on it too.

[Arátoeldar]

I'm not saying they don't work hard, I'm not saying they don't deserve recognition for what they do but it doesn't change the fact that they are employed to watch kids while parents are at work. That's babysitting, not teaching. I just hate the idea of kids being left in the care of others at younger and younger ages while parents run off to the office. Those years are absolutely crucial to a child's development and parents should take every opportunity to spend that time with their kids.

Not every one who goes to preschool has two parents that work. I vaguely remember going to preschool when my father was stationed in Germany. My mother was a stay at home mom the entire time we three kids were growing up. When my father met my mother she actually out ranked him. Because of the rules at the time she had to resign her commission in order to marry my father.

[Shalimar]

I'm going to home school our children- so that they turn out to be retarded little socially akward beings. :rolleyes:

I am just learning of the devistating situation american schools are in. I can't offer much to this conversation as I took all of my public education (1-12) in Canada... But I can say this.

My mother is a teacher at a private school and honestly, she runs into more problems with her students. The only difference between students at a public school and students at a private school is that mommy and daddy are paying more to have them there.

I am a big supporter of public schools. I came from a public school and I would love to see my children go to public school- I just hope that by the time we have kids of school going age the system will be in better shape.

Fatburger went to a private school and I am appauled at the crap that was passed as "literature". IMO he missed out on so many wonderful books and experiences reading- and I certainly don't want my children to miss out on it too.






Fuxx.. we're only interested in facts here cuz.. no one cares about your opinion.. bwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaahaaaaaaaa.....


but your post reminds me of something one of "safe schools" guys told me once.. poor kids steal cause they need shit.. rich kids steal for the rush.. but both groups steal.. . sorry if that's not one degree of separation for the god of flames but THAT'S WHAT IT REMINDED ME OF.. .. fuckouttahere..

[*Fuxx Burger*]

Fuxx.. we're only interested in facts here cuz.. no one cares about your opinion.. bwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaahaaaaaaaa.....


but your post reminds me of something one of "safe schools" guys told me once.. poor kids steal cause they need shit.. rich kids steal for the rush.. but both groups steal.. . sorry if that's not one degree of separation for the god of flames but THAT'S WHAT IT REMINDED ME OF.. .. fuckouttahere..

:tard:

[FlamingGlory]

I'm going to home school our children- so that they turn out to be retarded little socially akward beings. :rolleyes:

:tard:

[FlamingGlory]

Fuxx.. we're only interested in facts here cuz.. no one cares about your opinion.. bwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaahaaaaaaaa.....


but your post reminds me of something one of "safe schools" guys told me once.. poor kids steal cause they need shit.. rich kids steal for the rush.. but both groups steal.. . sorry if that's not one degree of separation for the god of flames but THAT'S WHAT IT REMINDED ME OF.. .. fuckouttahere..

o.O

[*Fuxx Burger*]

:tard:
Have you ever met a home schooled kid?? 6 of my neices and nephews are and I promise you, it's not a pretty sight.

[Fat Burger]

I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I say something stupid.

Standardized testing?

I think it should be a part of, but not the only way of measuring students.

Public vouchers ?

Like theac said, it's using everyone's money for something that benefits only some people. On the other hand, I can't think of a single part of government spending (besides maybe the military) that benefits the whole population equally.

I think the money that goes towards vouchers should be put into improving the public schools, instead. Or, just abolish public schools and subsidize private schools and offer good free homeschooling programs (obviously there are huge drawbacks to that, so I'm not really serious).

Private schools? Private religious schools?

Ok, here's where I have some experience. I attended two private schools and no public schools (two years of home school). I'll describe them both, then give some thoughts.

Non-denominational Christian K-12 school in Portland from K-2, 5-8, 11&12
This school sucked. The high school was 100 students, and besides a great (for its size) sports program, the school had nothing to offer. I was in the regular band and the smaller elite (can't think of a better word) jazz band, as I played trumpet. We played once, at a mall :tard:
There was no drama, no debate, no Future Farmers of America, one foreign language (Latin FFS), no chess club, no real art nothing. The choices were basically sports, choir and band. I did all three.

The academics were so bad, that our senior year enough students complained about the English teacher that they started a new opt-in English class with a more respected teacher. I think when I attended there were two (out of maybe 15) teachers that had any sort of college degree. In my senior year physics class we did Popsicle stick bridges and egg drops. I dont' think the school even owned a Bunsen burner or microscope. I ended up teaching the "computer programming" class. To this day I have never known any programming languages (to even a limited extent).
The other school I attended was better:

Anglican High school (7-12) in Sydney, Australia from 9-10
This school was great! It was about 700 students total. I was in a general music theory class, and we went to see several musicals (such as Les Miserables downtown), and had a few other fun outings. Sports weren't great, but they actually had a baseball team, even though the season was just one game (only one other school in the area had a team).

Academics though, were fantastic. Every subject had "gifted & talented" programs (except math I think). I helped out in the computer lab as part of one, and later was offered a choice between a special creative writing class, and a different English class. Even my regular German class had a couple outings to authentic German restaurants (where the staff spoke German), and other events. The teachers genuinely cared about the students, and I learned a ton. My freshman (9th) English classes were more challenging than my senior (12th) English classes at the first school.



And that's the danger of private schools - there is a HUGE variance from one school to the next. One school might be great, and a school that seems identical at first glance could be absolutely terrible.


Teacher salaries? and why, when 99% of the people I meet say "teachers should be paid more", they don't??

As already stated, people don't want to pay more taxes.

I don't know what it's like in other states, but here in Oregon, a huge percentage of tax money goes towards education, and the schools are still terrible. Why do high schools have on-staff sports coaches, and other luxuries, when the academics suffer?

I should mention that in Sydney, the private schools are partially government subsidized, despite the fact that half as much tax money (percentage-wise) goes to schools.

EDIT:
I should mention that I think the comment of teachers having no reason to perform better is spot on. The problem is, how do you define what teachers perform well and which don't? Student/parent/peer evaluation? Standardized testing? If a reliable method can be agreed on, it should be used. I seem to recall there being an interesting section on this in Freakonomics, anyone remember the details?

Spanking in schools (which we cant do here in FL)?

There are far better ways to discipline children. Most unfortunately aren't effective in a school environment, but spanking isn't really the best option.

Of course, I was spanked and it seemed quite effective, and I've never remotely resented my parents for it.

NCLB: No Child Left Behind?

I don't really know enough specifics about the program, but it doesn't seem to be working, at least.

[Shalimar]

I am attempting to be nice, and help you. Normally, I'd just insult you, your mother, and your wee doggy, then ignore you.

I was not pointing out a flaw in what you are saying but rather that no one can argue over opinion. One cant make any reason on fallacy. There is a reason as you put it 'legal briefs' are written the way they are. It is to convince, or illustrate. No one cares how you feel.

Im not even debating what you say because, well as per Voltaire - A man should never pretend to inform a lover of his mistress' faults, no more than one who is at law of the badness of his cause; nor attempt to win over a fanatic by strength of reasoning.

If you want someone to talk reasonably to you, you have to speak in a reasonable way.



damn.. and here i was hoping for some good ol' fashioned insults from ya.. the dog is immune.. my momma would eat your lunch intellectually.. and me? well, in the end, my ego can take it.. bring the noise..


kids of rich parents have better vocabs----fact.
kids of rich parents perform better on stand. testing---fact.
kids who've been raped by their grandfather aren't as focused on stand. testing as they should be--well, only a retard would argue the opposite.
kids with less life experiences perform lower on stand. testing--see above "retard" reference.
teacher bonuses based on performance of students on stand. testing are ultimately hard to gauge due to the varying levels of ability students bring to the table--fact.



debate that voltaire.. or work your mouse and insult me (we call it crackin down here) with another googlist quote.. impress us with your googlosity.. let me have it with another googlism...


hold on .. the dog has something to say to you. . no, wait, that's a turd..

[Fat Burger]

Have you ever met a home schooled kid?? 6 of my neices and nephews are and I promise you, it's not a pretty sight.

As well as several of my friends. A couple escaped without major social flaws, but certainly not the majority of them.

[FlamingGlory]

Have you ever met a home schooled kid?? 6 of my neices and nephews are and I promise you, it's not a pretty sight.

I was homeschooled.

[FlamingGlory]

damn.. and here i was hoping for some good ol' fashioned insults from ya.. the dog is immune.. my momma would eat your lunch intellectually.. and me? well, in the end, my ego can take it.. bring the noise..


kids of rich parents have better vocabs----fact.
kids of rich parents perform better on stand. testing---fact.
kids who've been raped by their grandfather aren't as focused on stand. testing as they should be--well, only a retard would argue the opposite.
kids with less life experiences perform lower on stand. testing--see above "retard" reference.
teacher bonuses based on performance of students on stand. testing are ultimately hard to gauge due to the varying levels of ability students bring to the table--fact.



debate that voltaire.. or work your mouse and insult me (we call it crackin down here) with another googlist quote.. impress us with your googlosity.. let me have it with another googlism...


hold on .. the dog has something to say to you. . no, wait, that's a turd..

Kids who eat lead may be retarded... fact
Kids who burn their hand on a stove cant hold their pencil to take a test... fact
Kids who dont bathe are stinky... fact
The fact other kids make fun of them because they are stinky makes them suck on tests... fact
They just might not want to try... fact

Obviously the solution is that the government should provide them all with maids.

[SemperFly]

I was homeschooled.

you realize you just completely ruined the argument I was preparing defending home schooling as a viable practice, right?

[Shalimar]

Kids who eat lead may be retarded... fact
Kids who burn their hand on a stove cant hold their pencil to take a test... fact
Kids who dont bathe are stinky... fact
The fact other kids make fun of them because they are stinky makes them suck on tests... fact
They just might not want to try... fact

Obviously the solution is that the government should provide them all with maids.


wasn't no "mays" or "mights" in my arguments flame doggie.. WTF? is google down right now? whyon'tyou go "ask jeeves" what you should say..

not arguing that poverty in the community might be the govt's responsibility, as opposed to education .. i'm responding to your "you didn't give any valid facts" post..

ur funny broham..

[FlamingGlory]

you realize you just completely ruined the argument I was preparing defending home schooling as a viable practice, right?

:lol: :lol:

I should punch you.

[SemperFly]

:heart:

[FlamingGlory]

wasn't no "mays" or "mights" in my arguments flame doggie.. WTF? is google down right now? whyon'tyou go "ask jeeves" what you should say..

not arguing that poverty in the community might be the govt's responsibility, as opposed to education .. i'm responding to your "you didn't give any valid facts" post..

ur funny broham..
Well the only reason I said may is because not all heavy metal poisoning results in retardation and not taking a bath doesnt always make you stinky.

You are rattling off reasons that it isnt fair to hold back stupid kids because it may not be their fault but rather the fault of their circumstances. I am saying that when you design a system to address the needs of everyone there is no way to apply one answer to every single person's situation. This is exactly what I said before here:

...Ill stay away from the latin but you are bringing up multiple unrelated one off circumstances (ignoratio elenchi) and use them to justify your entire argument. It is a pointless exercise to address these things. They in no way reflect the whole of the persons being addressed by this subject. To address them is to again bring down things to the slowest person being taught. Everyone should not have to pay for the mistakes of a few. There are other agencies designed to take care of these problems. Not the school system.

You are dumbing down everything, simply because one kid has this problem, and one kid has this problem, and one kid has this problem, ad nauseum. You cant take those things into account unless you are going to make every as stupid (for whatever reason) as the stupidest kid out there.

I am answering you respectfully and you are giving me less and less reason to. Say something coherent.

[Shalimar]

bruh.. i'm talking about THE MAJORITY at my school. .. in my region..

so, just "fuck the poor kids".. . is that what i'm reading?????

killin me with this "coherent".. lmao.. ur funny doggie... is poverty not a factor in educating people??

my wife just got home.. i got work to do.. and it doesn't involve an internet herb..

in the immortal words of russell simmons, goodnight... godbless..

[kiwi]

I'm going to home school our children- so that they turn out to be retarded little socially akward beings. :rolleyes:

Hey now, I was homeschooled for four years and I will pull our kids out of elementary and homeschool them the first time they bring homework home before fifth grade that was assigned as homework, not just something they didn't finish in class (and not counting things like spelling lists and reading reprts).

I also think preschool has its place, but like Flynavy, these people who are putting their kids in preschool at age 2 are just using it for a glorified daycare. I want my kids to be excited to go to kindergarten cause it's a new experience and not be burned out already from 3 years of all day school. I will put our kids in preschool a couple days a week for a couple hours a day the year before they start kindergarten but more just for learning to sit in a classroom environment and the fun aspects of preschool like going to the firehouse and farm and such. It won't be to teach them their letters and colors (we are already working on that) but more to enforce what they've learned at home.

[Dysfunctional]

bruh.. i'm talking about THE MAJORITY at my school. .. in my region..

so, just "fuck the poor kids".. . is that what i'm reading?????

killin me with this "coherent".. lmao.. ur funny doggie... is poverty not a factor in educating people??

my wife just got home.. i got work to do.. and it doesn't involve an internet herb..

in the immortal words of russell simmons, goodnight... godbless..


There are so many factors that effect education.

Education can't turn everything around if too many of those factors work against you.

We need to provide opportunity and a safety net for those that do not avail themselves of the opportunity.

Unfortunately, there is too much scapegoating for the failures we have.

Teachers are the prime scapegoats.

Personally, I am sick and tired about hearing how teachers are supposed to motivate students.

That sets up young people to expect that from the rest of the world.

It doesn't work that way.

[FlamingGlory]

bruh.. i'm talking about THE MAJORITY at my school. .. in my region..

so, just "fuck the poor kids".. . is that what i'm reading?????

No, I'm saying that being poor doesnt make you stupid, and being rich doesnt make you smart. Treating poor kids like they're r