Kill Shelters vs. No Kill Shelters

[April40]

I was at the dentist today getting my first root canal (no lollipop) and while in the waiting room reading one of the magazines I came across an article (4 rope'r actually) about no kill shelters. They had a picture of a white cat that looked horribly diseased ridden and several other pictures of these no kill shelters where the animals get very little care if at all and the living conditions are so poor I couldn't stand looking at the page before turning it and tearing up some.

Originally, I was all for no kill shelters - I love animals way too much and they don't deserve to die because us humans aren't responsible enough to FUCKING NEUTER OR SPAY our pets.

I feel a little torn between the two types of shelters. Granted there are very nice no kill shelters out there and they are truly a gift. Animals in these horrible no kill shelters like they presented do NOT need a life like that. Some of you will say "they are just cats, etc." It's just not true when you have one sitting at home you love as much as a family member.

Oddly enough, I could care less about orphanages and the poor. Put a suffering animal in front of me and I'm liable to kill the person who put this animal through pain. They are defenseless.

I'm so torn, help me out here. :hs:


ibpetacomments

[FlamingGlory]

You cant make an omlette without breaking some eggs.

[ERage]

I don't like shelters at all. In the past we have always harbored strays until we can place them in a good home. You can only harbor so many and still lead the life of a non-cat lady. We've been lucky to always find good homes relatively quickly for strays that we find.

:heart: eileen and IBWIP for taking one of our most recent find.

[KNYTE]

I bet the dentist felt you up while you were unconcious. They do that ya know, all the time.

....I wish I were a dentist.

[Pandora]

In a perfect world all shelters would be no-kill shelters. In reality, not every animal is adoptable. And, there are only a limited numbers of people who adopt. Unfortunatly, a choice must be made sometimes....

[April40]

In a perfect world all shelters would be no-kill shelters. In reality, not every animal is adoptable. And, there are only a limited numbers of people who adopt. Unfortunatly, a choice must be made sometimes....

:( :( :( :( :(

[shawndavid]

You cant make an omlette without breaking some eggs.

omg hahahaha - sometimes you make me giggle...



I bet the dentist felt you up while you were unconcious. They do that ya know, all the time.

....I wish I were a dentist.

He injected his seed into her gums via syringe.

[reverendsaintjay]

In a previous life I lived with a couple, let's call them Costanza and Ms. Doolittle. Ms. D had a horrible preponderance for picking up strays and bringing them home, we lived in what can only be described as a non-commercial petting zoo. I was all good with it until she brought home three cats from behind a gas station. Now, the three cats were named Elwood, Smokey and Ace. Elwood was tits, he was one of those energetic, playful cats that give all other cats a good name. Smokey was skittish, clearly abused at some point, but friendly if you made no threatening/aggressive movements towards him. Ace was 100% pure feral. Someone had done something to this cat to turn him off humans bigtime.

For the first time in my life I understood the premise behind Kill Shelters. There was no way that Ace was ever going to trust humans. The alternatives presented at a shelter would have been life behind bars, a quick snip (neuter) and out the door, or a (relatively) painless death. So far as I know Ace still terrorizes the laundry room in the house Ms. D moved into, she clearly doesn't share my opinion that sometimes the most humane thing we can do for something is to put it out of it's misery.

I know, I'm an evil bastard. But here, have a Daily Kitten (http://dailykitten.com).

[April40]

The daily kitten made me feel a little better.

[ERage]

The daily kitten made me feel a little better.

Me too, until I realized someone in the world uses the phrase "purry motor" Now I am back to my normal state of disturbed.

[April40]

Me too, until I realized someone in the world uses the phrase "purry motor" Now I am back to my normal state of disturbed.

Awww that too is cuet!

[bast_imret]

He injected his seed into her gums via syringe.

That means Ape's gonna have baby teeth again :fly:

[wanko80]

You cant make an omlette without breaking some eggs.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[reverendsaintjay]

That means Ape's gonna have baby teeth again :fly:

Rep+

[Dharma1521]

The daily kitten made me feel a little better.

You aren't supposed to open that till January!

[April40]

You aren't supposed to open that till January!

I haven't yet, it's still in my desk!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0761141847.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Dharma1521]

I haven't yet, it's still in my desk!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0761141847.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Hmmm . . . I've got my eye on you. :drool:

[Onnotangu]

notice the kill shelters are always near a chinese resturant.

hmm general tso's

[Pandora]

In a previous life I lived with a couple, let's call them Costanza and Ms. Doolittle. Ms. D had a horrible preponderance for picking up strays and bringing them home, we lived in what can only be described as a non-commercial petting zoo. I was all good with it until she brought home three cats from behind a gas station. Now, the three cats were named Elwood, Smokey and Ace. Elwood was tits, he was one of those energetic, playful cats that give all other cats a good name. Smokey was skittish, clearly abused at some point, but friendly if you made no threatening/aggressive movements towards him. Ace was 100% pure feral. Someone had done something to this cat to turn him off humans bigtime.

For the first time in my life I understood the premise behind Kill Shelters. There was no way that Ace was ever going to trust humans. The alternatives presented at a shelter would have been life behind bars, a quick snip (neuter) and out the door, or a (relatively) painless death. So far as I know Ace still terrorizes the laundry room in the house Ms. D moved into, she clearly doesn't share my opinion that sometimes the most humane thing we can do for something is to put it out of it's misery.

I know, I'm an evil bastard. But here, have a Daily Kitten (http://dailykitten.com).

You really can't do anything for ferals. Once they revert back to that they really are wild cats. They really aren't happy being forced into servitude (being kept indoors as pets) so I can't imagine why Ms. D would keep him like that. However I don't think it's right to just kill them because they can't be adopted. The best thing imo is to snip them and set the free. Nature will take it's course with them, but at least they won't bring anymore unwanted kitties into this overpopulated world.

[April40]

You really can't do anything for ferals. Once they revert back to that they really are wild cats. They really aren't happy being forced into servitude (being kept indoors as pets) so I can't imagine why Ms. D would keep him like that. However I don't think it's right to just kill them because they can't be adopted. The best thing imo is to snip them and set the free. Nature will take it's course with them, but at least they won't bring anymore unwanted kitties into this overpopulated world.

I like that idea, but who will do all the snipping for free?

[Sarcasmo]

When you look at the fact that there are about 827 trillion wild-domestic animals in the U.S. alone, you kind of realize that you just have to start slaughtering some.

[April40]

When you look at the fact that there are about 827 trillion wild-domestic animals in the U.S. alone, you kind of realize that you just have to start slaughtering some.

:mad: :( :( :( :(

[Sarcasmo]

:mad: :( :( :( :(

Well, when do you draw the fucking line? I don't think we need that many dogs and cats in one country.

Don't even get me started on blacks and mexicans.

[wanko80]

I think those damn white crackers are spreading too fast.

[FlamingGlory]

:mad: :( :( :( :(

Putting something down isnt exactly the worst thing that can happen to it.

[Sarcasmo]

Nothin' says lovin' like something from zee oven.

[SemperFly]

In a perfect world all shelters would be no-kill shelters. In reality, not every animal is adoptable. And, there are only a limited numbers of people who adopt. Unfortunatly, a choice must be made sometimes....

Yup. Sucks but we can't ignore the fact that animals die. Circle of life and all that bullshit; every living creature dies and trying to save them all is ridiculous.

frakking PETArds

[April40]

http://dailykitten.com/kittens/1161824842sleepycat.jpg Doesn't deserve to die!!!

[Sarcasmo]

I think that one just got gassed. It looks dead.

[April40]

I think that one just got gassed. It looks dead.

IL +1

[ERage]

http://dailykitten.com/kittens/1161824842sleepycat.jpg Doesn't deserve to die!!!

http://www.paper-source.com/images/detail/463116.jpg

Rats don't deserve to die either but people don't have a problem calling exterminators and putting out poison for them just cause they aren't cute.

[SemperFly]

http://dailykitten.com/kittens/1161824842sleepycat.jpg Doesn't deserve to die!!!

doesn't deserve to die? everything dies. everything. why does that animal get a pass but a raccoon in a trashcan doesn't? why did the pig that got slaughtered for your breakfast deserve to die any more than that cat? cuteness?

Everything dies. Save what you can but don't let it affect you too much because in the end everything dies. Animals and people. I know it's not nice to hear but the sooner people accept that life has a cycle the sooner those people can stop fearing death.

[April40]

doesn't deserve to die? everything dies. everything. why does that animal get a pass but a raccoon in a trashcan doesn't? why did the pig that got slaughtered for your breakfast deserve to die any more than that cat? cuteness?

Everything dies. Save what you can but don't let it affect you too much because in the end everything dies. Animals and people. I know it's not nice to hear but the sooner people accept that life has a cycle the sooner those people can stop fearing death.


:wtf: WTF are you talking about? You love to argue, and I'm not even talking about the natural dying process. All I'm saying is it sucks for us to choose their demise by killing them since it isn't convenient for us for them to cohabit where we are living.

[SemperFly]

You love to argue

you're catching on :heart:

[VladTemplar]

:wtf: WTF are you talking about? You love to argue, and I'm not even talking about the natural dying process. All I'm saying is it sucks for us to choose their demise by killing them since it isn't convenient for us for them to cohabit where we are living.

Animals != Humans

/debate

[Pandora]

I like that idea, but who will do all the snipping for free?

Few things are free in life. If you really want to help you have to be willing to part with some $$ along the way. Some vets will do discounts on snippings for strays/ferals if you talk to them about it. Also, some cities have low cost spay and neuter organizations. There's a group in our metro area called Catsnip (http://www.atlantaanimalalliance.com/aaa/spayvehicle.htm)that provide the following services for kitties:

Surgery Prices
Cat Neuter $40*
Cat Spay $60*
Surgery price includes a FREE Rabies vaccination on day of surgery only.

Additional Services
Treatments
Note: All animals treated must have spay/neuter surgery on day of treatment.
Distemper Vaccination $5
Feline Leukemia (FeLV) $15
Flea (Frontline) $10 per treatment
Tapeworm $10
Earmites $10
FIV & FeLV Combo Test $20
Dewormer $10

Surgery Extras
Pregnancy $10 per trimester
Antibiotics $10
Office Visit No Charge
Exam No Charge
In Heat No Charge
Pain Relief No Charge (Included with surgery)
Toe Nail Clip No Charge
Tender Loving Care No Charge

[zengirl]

You really can't do anything for ferals. Once they revert back to that they really are wild cats. They really aren't happy being forced into servitude (being kept indoors as pets) so I can't imagine why Ms. D would keep him like that. However I don't think it's right to just kill them because they can't be adopted. The best thing imo is to snip them and set the free. Nature will take it's course with them, but at least they won't bring anymore unwanted kitties into this overpopulated world.

This is true... a feral cat has an average life expectancy of 2-3 years.

[April40]

Animals != Humans

/debate


No living creature is more superior than another on this planet.

[VladTemplar]

No living creature is more superior than another on this planet.

Tell that to a Great White Shark.

[April40]

Tell that to a Great White Shark.

:sigh: Every creature has a purpose. I don't think we are on the same page.

[w_a_w]

thought this was fitting for the thread
http://uselessforums.com/imagehosting/154554d701bc05a.jpg

[SemperFly]

:sigh: Every creature has a purpose. I don't think we are on the same page.

yeah to work for me, feed me, or entertain me :D

[VladTemplar]

yeah to work for me, feed me, or entertain me :D

Top of the food chain FTW!

[SemperFly]

Top of the food chain FTW!

http://uselessforums.com/imagehosting/654554d9c9cafcb.jpg

[Sarcasmo]

Dogs and cats should master camouflage if they want to survive.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/PhatDaddyDamon/broommopdog.jpg

[KNYTE]

Dogs and cats should master camouflage if they want to survive.

...pic...



The Canadian Howling Ratchet Terrier has learned to hide itself in its environment exceptionally well. There are 14 of the small dogs hiding in this image alone. Can you find all 14?

http://uselessforums.com/imagehosting/1964554e44dd27dd.jpg

Jack Russell Terriers use a different approach to survival however; they are pack hunters. Here is a picture of 3 of them after they took down an African Bull Elephant who wandered onto their territory. There are no remains of the Elephant as the 3 dogs completely devoured every last cell of it in under two minutes.

http://uselessforums.com/imagehosting/1964554e6558c9be.jpg

[Sarcasmo]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/PhatDaddyDamon/dogfound.jpg

[SemperFly]

see that little shadow just to the right of the center? that's an entire platoon of navy seals

[Sarcasmo]

http://uselessforums.com/imagehosting/1964554e6558c9be.jpg


Look at those evil little bastards. I can practically hear Flight of the Valkyries and O Fortuna playing in their heads.

[fly]

The Canadian Howling Ratchet Terrier has learned to hide itself in its environment exceptionally well. There are 14 of the small dogs hiding in this image alone. Can you find all 14?

http://uselessforums.com/imagehosting/1964554e44dd27dd.jpg

Jack Russell Terriers use a different approach to survival however; they are pack hunters. Here is a picture of 3 of them after they took down an African Bull Elephant who wandered onto their territory. There are no remains of the Elephant as the 3 dogs completely devoured every last cell of it in under two minutes.

http://uselessforums.com/imagehosting/1964554e6558c9be.jpg

I fucking love your posts

[FlamingGlory]

Top of the food chain FTW!

I'm stronger than you. I'm also more viscious. According to this logic I can kill you.

[Sarcasmo]

I'm stronger than you. I'm also more viscious. According to this logic I can kill you.

And then April can kill you.

[FlamingGlory]

And then April can kill you.

I dont follow. She looks like 130lbs soaking wet.

[Sarcasmo]

I dont follow. She looks like 130lbs soaking wet.

It's a trick. Get an axe.

[FlamingGlory]

It's a trick. Get an axe.

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun?

[VladTemplar]

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun?

And since Colt made all men equal, you wouldn't have any serious advantage over me anyways. Barring, of course, you having exhaustive experience with firearms.

[April40]

I dont follow. She looks like 130lbs soaking wet.

Whoa you're way off.



It's like 350lbs.

[Candy]

Oddly enough, I could care less about orphanages and the poor. Put a suffering animal in front of me and I'm liable to kill the person who put this animal through pain. They are defenseless.



Amen. I feel the same way.

Awhile back I saw a shelter documentary about a kill shelter who did so for reasons I never gave any thought to.
- Animals in cages and shelters start to go crazy after awhile and the constant barking and noise deteriorates the quality of life.

- some are sick and left in shitty conditions (no pun intended)

taken from the synopsis of the doc called "Shelter dogs"

Each year, approximately 5 million dogs are brought to animal shelters in the U.S.; the majority - nearly 4 million in all - will never be adopted. Some of these unwanted dogs will spend the rest of their lives in cages; others will be euthanized.

Cynthia Wade's documentary SHELTER DOGS is a compelling look at how one unique shelter responds to a seemingly endless stream of homeless animals. Filmed over the course of two years, SHELTER DOGS follows Sue Sternberg, founder of Rondout Valley Animals for Adoption in Accord, New York, as Sternberg and her staff navigate a world in which there are no simple solutions -- and where decisions are often life-and-death.

Some of the dogs are immediately placed in wonderful, permanent homes. But there are also troubling moral dilemmas surrounding some of the "gray area" dogs. If a dog bites, is it ethical to adopt him out to the general public? If a dog guards his food, can he be trusted in a family with children? And what about the dogs that never find homes -- is it more humane for them to spend their lives in a shelter or to euthanize them? This provocative documentary provides a fresh look at these kinds of issues and the complex, morally ambiguous world of animal sheltering.


I too, am torn.

[FlamingGlory]

And since Colt made all men equal, you wouldn't have any serious advantage over me anyways. Barring, of course, you having exhaustive experience with firearms.

It's Army of Darkness... o.O

Strangely. You havent been here long but I do have exhaustive expierence with firearms :lol: It's my hobby.

[KNYTE]

Is it wrong of me that I legitimately do not care about homeless animals being put to sleep?

[FlamingGlory]

Is it wrong of me that I legitmately do not care about homeless animals being put to sleep?

I'm just wondering why you said "legitimate". You conform to recognized principles of not caring about animals being put to sleep?

I think sincerely, truthfully, verily, all fit better.

[Sarcasmo]

I'm just wondering why you said "legitimate". You conform to recognized principles of not caring about animals being put to sleep?

I think sincerely, truthfully, verily, all fit better.

He didn't say legitimate. He said legitmate.

[FlamingGlory]

He didn't say legitimate. He said legitmate.

Same thing.

[Sarcasmo]

Same thing.

Huh uh.

[Valve1080i]

This thread makes me sad. :(

And makes me want to adopt a kitty.

[Pandora]

This would be a good thread to post information about greyhounds....

[FlamingGlory]

This would be a good thread to post information about greyhounds....
Everyone who needs to know does.

[HydroSqueegee]

lets see... life in a cage with little to no human interaction while slowly going crazy? or death?

its a tough choice...

keep the adoptable ones, kill the remainder

[Dharma1521]

lets see... life in a cage with little to no human interaction while slowly going crazy? or death?

its a tough choice...

keep the adoptable ones, kill the remainder

Yeah I do agree. Some animals have been hurt in the past and just can't be around humans and its not fair to be stuck in a cage. And some animals just aren't mentally stable and can't be around people. In the wild, in dogs for example, the pack would kill the weak or unstable ones. I would hate to be in a cage for the rest of my life.

[fly]

lets see... life in a cage with little to no human interaction while slowly going crazy? or death?

its a tough choice...

keep the adoptable ones, kill the remainder

zoo or no zoo?

[HydroSqueegee]

zoo or no zoo?

animals in zoos get phenomenal care. The biologists and zoologists that work with them take great pride in their work and care deeply about the animals. Animals also have free run in man made environments that are built to reflect their natural environment. Thats a far cry better than being in a 3x12 run all day, every day for years on end and the only time you see a person is when they fill your food and water.

[April40]

animals in zoos get phenomenal care. The biologists and zoologists that work with them take great pride in their work and care deeply about the animals. Animals also have free run in man made environments that are built to reflect their natural environment. Thats a far cry better than being in a 3x12 run all day, every day for years on end and the only time you see a person is when they fill your food and water.

Ask those elephants you see swaying from side to side if they get phenomenal care.

[SemperFly]

Ask those elephants you see swaying from side to side if they get phenomenal care.

I had a dream last night that included elephants in a tree and baby elephants running around a neighborhood hugging people. This was shortly after I backed into a classic Mustang made of fiberglass or something at 2mph in a dirt driveway trying to avoid a massive accident on the highway I was about to turn on to caused by a new Mustang that somehow jumped the median. I also couldn't find my insurance card...


which served to remind me that I need to stop by my State Farm office and pick up a copy of that before I renew my plates. :lol:

[April40]

^Whatta weirdo. :heart:

[elpmis]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/PhatDaddyDamon/dogfound.jpg

:lol:

[ERage]

I had a dream that I was sitting in my pajamas in my kitchen playing chess with Abe Lincoln while a talking beaver was eating breakfast. Oh, and some old time scuba guy was cooking. They kept pushing some kind of sleeping pill on me too.

Or wait, maybe I just saw that on T.V.

[HydroSqueegee]

Ask those elephants you see swaying from side to side if they get phenomenal care.

being scrubbed down and fed every day is much better than thirst and poachers out in the wild.

[April40]

being scrubbed down and fed every day is much better than thirst and poachers out in the wild.

Are you insane?

[HydroSqueegee]

Are you insane?

its been hinted at by others... why do you ask?

[HifiGirly]

Interesting subject. Working at a vet for as long as I have now, I still have issues with this debate. I like the idea of no kill shelters, in theory they are wonderful, but reality not so much. Animals who are taken there all get to live, with the exception of horribly sick or badly injured. The animals though are often neglected because there are so many. We have a local no kill dog rescue who at any one time has around 300. We got our last dog there and he is great, but he was also a puppy and only lived there over night. Other dogs we see at the clinic that come from there may have been there for months. These animals often have fleas, worms and various illness due to living conditions. The owners of these shelters often can't pay for medical care (we actually wrote off a $2500 running balance after 2 years of no payments and they got services at a large discount from us) so injuries often go untreated.
Kill shelters are a necessary evil, but I personally wish there was more control over them. In college a few years ago I did a couple papers on the horrors of grayhound racing. Once you start researching that you get all kinds of things- not realated to greyhound racing, but to animal in general and some days I regret that I know what happens. I read about a shelter who is in a southern county in Ohio. There was 1 man who worked there. Each Friday afternoon he would gas all the animals so he didn't have to come into work on the weekend. He had no regard for them, even animals that had possible home. I also read of a shelter in a country area who would take the dogs out for target practice on the weekend.
Its such a fine line between good and bad with both types of shelters its easy to argue either side.
Bottom line Spay and Nueter your pets.

[April40]

I wish I didn't read that last post. :(